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Suppressed Technology or Urban Legend? The Truth About Water-Powered Cars

Stories of conspiracies to suppress new technological breakthroughs that threaten the status quo are almost innumerable. While most of these tales seem to be a bit on the tall side, in some instances there really does appear to be some fire behind the smoke. Scam artists and hucksters may outnumber the true unappreciated or unacknowledged geniuses by 10 to 1 (or maybe it is more like 100 to 1), but that does not mean that every single new discovery that gets rejected by the scientific and media establishment is automatically unworthy of consideration. And make no mistake – those who have vested interests in entrenched technologies are not above taking devious actions designed to squelch any potential competition, and it would be naïve to the extreme to think otherwise.

When the villains are identified in these types of stories, you will not find any group mentioned more often than the oil companies.  In their maniacal and obsessive determination to control the world’s fuel and energy markets until the end of time, these incredibly powerful corporations have allegedly used their money and political influence to suppress an almost endless number of alternative fuels and energy-generating technologies. And indeed, it is into the dark and murky netherworld of hidden energy sources and the oil companies that we must venture in order to investigate a type of technology that, if it really exists and can do what its supporters claim it is capable of doing, could present a legitimate threat to the hegemony of the fossil fuel industry. What we are talking about here is the possibility that we may be able to manufacture cars that are powered not by gasoline but by water, the most plentiful substance on the face of the earth.

How It Works – Or Does It?

It must be emphasized that no promoters or developers of water-powered cars are claiming that it is possible to use water itself as a fuel. Instead, what these inventors and entrepreneurs assert is that energy is being generated inside of their cars through a two-step process that involves splitting water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen, via water electrolysis inside a device called a hydrolyser, and then recombining these two gases inside a fuel cell to restore the water to its former state. This may sound like pointless activity, but when water is synthesized by combining oxygen and hydrogen electricity is actually released in the ensuing chemical reaction. This provides a whole new supply of energy, which can then be used to turn the wheels and power other systems in the car. And of course, when water is reconstituted in the fuel cell it can then be recycled and used to start the process all over again, ad infinitum.

Or at least, this is how it works according to the sellers and promoters of water-powered cars. But the problem is that what is being described here appears to break the law. Not the laws of men, but the laws of science; or more specifically, the first two Laws of Thermodynamics.  In reality, the amount of energy needed to break apart the molecular bonds of water molecules in order to create hydrogen and oxygen and the amount of energy needed to put those two elements back together again would be exactly the same, meaning that even in a perfect world it would not be possible to gain any extra energy to turn wheels or power other automobile systems through the process described above. This is the principle of energy conservation, and it forms the basis of the First Law of Thermodynamics. But the world we live in is far from perfect, and if the process described above was actually occurring, some of the available energy would be lost as waste through the generation of heat. This is because of the principle of entropy, or the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which tells us that energy systems are never closed and therefore gradually lose their potential to produce power over time. So not only would the two-step process described above not produce the energy you needed to make the car function, but you would actually be losing some of the energy you supposedly had available while the process was ongoing. What this means is clear – because of the principles of energy conservation and entropy, the system that supposedly operates inside a water-powered car would actually use up more energy than it produces, which means it could not work.

New book focuses on the unique requirements of off-grid living as well as using “green” energy for homeowners who remain connected to the electrical utility.

Another Alternative

It is true that some of the more famous – or infamous, depending on your perspective – water-powered cars, such as that allegedly invented by Stanley Meyer in the 1990s, or by a Japanese company called Genepax in 2008, could not work without violating the laws of physics. However, there may be another way that water can be used to help boost the efficiency of automobiles. It has been claimed that when a hydrolyser is used to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen, and the hydrogen is then injected into the car’s intake manifold to mix with gasoline, the presence of this element will cause that gasoline to combust more rapidly and reliably, thereby increasing engine efficiency and gas mileage by anywhere from 15 to 300 percent. It is relatively simple to construct such a system, and there are kits available for sale online that will provide all the materials you need, plus instructions, so that you can convert your car into a “water/gasoline hybrid” right at home in your own garage.

The good news here is that scientific tests have been done that show hydrogen added to certain kinds of fuel made to burn in certain types of engines can boost combustion efficiency and gas mileage, just as some claim. The bad news is that the engines in question here are highly specialized and only burn what is known as “lean” fuel, which has a lower than normal air content and higher than normal gas content. Extra hydrogen – in its liquid form – smooths out the combustion process in this type of fuel source, but the gains in efficiency are relatively modest, falling short of even the 15 percent claimed by water/gasoline hybrid enthusiasts. And there is no reason to believe such a system would work in a normal automobile engine, since the kind of fuel you get at your local filling station really cannot make effective use of any extra hydrogen, and the hydrogen gases produced in a home made hydrolyser would not have the same effect as liquid hydrogen even if you did have a lean burning engine and a fuel source to supply it. So alas, the claims of those selling DIY home systems promising to boost gas mileage by turning your car into a water/gas hybrid are either snake oil salesmen, or they are well-meaning but mistaken about what these systems can actually do.

Fact or Fiction?

Ultimately, the water-powered car idea we have been looking at is a pig in a poke because it violates the known laws of physics. But what about any unknown or little understood laws of physics? Might there be alternative ways of generating energy, such as so-called “cold fusion,” that could boldly take us into brand new and exciting areas where no one has gone before? Some of the more intriguing stories about conspiracies to suppress or cover up new technologies come from this category, and it is here that we may very well be entering the realm of the unappreciated and unacknowledged genius who actually does find a way to decode some of nature’s most well-kept secrets, only to run afoul of established authority hell-bent on keeping the truth from the public (what exactly did the government do with all of those files and records they seized from Wilhelm Reich and Nikola Tesla, anyway?).

But none of this is any help to the promoters of water-powered cars, who are not invoking any new laws of hyper-dimensional physics or claiming that they have learned how to tap into the field of zero-point energy. In this case, we really have nothing more to go on than the fact that if it were real and worked the way its peddlers tell us it does, the technology behind water-powered cars would be violating some of the most well-established and reliable laws of the old physics that we all know and love. Therefore, our final verdict on the subject of water-powered cars must be that they are the stuff of urban legend, and that their promoters are either in it to con the gullible or have been sold a bill of goods themselves and don’t realize they have been had. At least in this instance, we can be sure that there is no conspiracy by the oil companies to hide the truth about water-powered cars, because no matter how diabolical we might think these fossil fuel giants are there is no reason to cover up a technology that doesn’t actually work.

©2012 Off the Grid News

© 2008-2014 Off The Grid News

119 comments

  1. I am as confused as the little boy who dropped his chewing gum in the chicken yard!

    • I think all the readers on both sides needs to spend a lot more time on http://www.instructables.com and research the theory behind separating Hydrogen and Oxygen molecules and using the results for fuel.

      You can build a small system to fire a bunsen burner if you so choose.

      In the meantime, back in the late 1800 the person in charge of the US Patent office recommended closing down the Patent Office because “Everything that can be invented has been invented.”

      He may have been a bit wrong in his assertion.

  2. I find that the author of the artical is right on as to the time that I have put into and the dollars I find that it is not worth it; One I find if you do just the water system only then you get less than .03 percent in crease in milage, but if you heat the fuel from your gas tank then you will get and increase in milage of about 15percent. So realy the water does no good

    • Well recall not many years ago one John Kanzius who invented a cure for cancer by simple radio waves heating up tiny metal injected into the cancer.. this machine of his was a simple everyday radio wave generator but he just wanted to use it to heat up the metal .. but lo and behold this same machine split salt water too when he put a veil of sea water in front of the machine and ignited the bubbles it suddenly produced…
      fire shot up like a jet engine from it. Keep in mind this was no scientist no chemist.. just a broadcast engineer for radio stations. The point here is.. we are certainly and surely being scammed for all these years by the globalist liberal system and government that keeps folks ignorant and in the dark for money and power.
      Ive been around these topics quite number of years and I for one can say that’s exactly whats going on.

  3. Perhaps the author could watch this and then write a little response. –
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUgUF5M3FTI&feature=related

  4. I noticed that you did a little comparing of apples to oranges in your article when discussing liquid hydrogen and then switching to gaseous hydrogen. That has hydrogen at two different energy levels and in two different states. I am not going to jump up and down and scream in capitals, but this discrepancy should be addressed to set the record straight and also to reach a logical conclusion that better considers the concepts and reach a level of journalistic standard that is better than comparing dissimiliar fruit.

    • They must have addressed by the time I read it, because they do mention that the theory is able to work somewhat with H liquid but not as a gas, but basically good luck getting liquid hydrogen for a consumer.. And H as a gas hasn’t provided the same results- so yes, apple & oranges, but that is their point… getting the theory that only worked with apples to work with the oranges we can get or produce doesn’t work … yet…
      the text:
      “The good news here is that scientific tests have been done that show hydrogen added to certain kinds of fuel made to burn in certain types of engines can boost combustion efficiency and gas mileage, just as some claim. The bad news is that the engines in question here are highly specialized and only burn what is known as “lean” fuel, which has a lower than normal air content and higher than normal gas content. Extra hydrogen – in its liquid form – smooths out the combustion process in this type of fuel source, but the gains in efficiency are relatively modest, falling short of even the 15 percent claimed by water/gasoline hybrid enthusiasts. And there is no reason to believe such a system would work in a normal automobile engine, since the kind of fuel you get at your local filling station really cannot make effective use of any extra hydrogen, and the hydrogen gases produced in a home made hydrolyser would not have the same effect as liquid hydrogen even if you did have a lean burning engine and a fuel source to supply it. ”

      Is that what you meant?

  5. I’ve read the theory of using electrolysis to free the hydrogen in water and use it to increase the efficiency of the combustion and although the author is correct, strictly speaking, I think what he overlooks is that the generator is already providing sufficient “extra” energy to be used for electrolysis so in that sense it’s “free” in that if not used for electrolysis it will still be generated but just produce heat.
    Nuclear power plants do much the same thing; their operators don’t want to turn them down or turn them off at night so they use the “extra” energy to pump water back up into hydroelectric dams to have more water available to fall through generators during the peak demand hours of the next day.

    • The only problem is that the generator in your car will cause more drag when there is a greater demand for power, so your car uses more gas to turn the generator. there is nothing free about that energy.

      • OK if that is true you would not see an increase in your m p g.
        Think about it.

      • What isn’t considered by this article is that the hydrogen/oxygen bond can be broken more easily when certain vibratory frequencies are used during the hydrolysis process. Where normally an electric current powerful enough to break that bond during hydrolysis would take as much power as would later be produced by the combustion process of reuniting the hydrogen and oxygen, minus efficiency losses due to heat. Yet it has been shown that a much smaller current can cause the same breaking of the H/O bond when a high frequency harmonic makes that bond more fragile. This provides a over unity gain which makes it workable. I think it has also been suggested that certain catalysts can provide this same type of effect.

        • PS. This article makes me think of the scientists of the last century who claimed that heavier than air flight was scientifically impossible. The facts they cited were true enough, they just did not take into account that there are principles that can override others and make them obsolete and immaterial. The principles of aerodynamics that until the Wright brothers were not understood, over rode the principle of gravity in this instance.

  6. The author perpetuates the myth that the HHO generators are a closed system,thus violating the “laws”
    of thermo-dynamics (as we know them )…..the hydrogen added is a product of ADDED fuel ….and that
    results of usage are varied but seem more favorably pronounced in “fixed” engines.

    • The closed system they discuss was the form where hydrogen produced in the car. Any added Hydrogen car would not be a water car…. Any system producing hydrogen in the car takes energy to convert water to Hydrogen & oxygen. Then re-combine to make water again, taking electricity given off there to run generator.

  7. I too, believe that this article was/is misleading, I have been informed by a brilliant scientist that know about this technology and has also read the patents himself( and he is no light weight) a lot of the things that you use come from this brilliant man. I can’t recall the name of the individual that first open the door concerning water powered vehicles but this technology is real and true. Due to the internet, blogs and facebook more people are coming into the knowledge of this technology and therefore we will begin to see misinformation put out. This is how those who control operates. Just think about it, having a car that runs off water, man, the balance of power would shift and put back into the hands of the average person. No more price gauging, no more having to pay outrageous electric bills, no more have to deal with the oil industry who continues to play with the American people lives with the up and down prices at the pump, then they give you a bull…….it reason why prices are going up that really defies logic. The American people need to start asking questions like, ” how is it that NASA can send objects into outer space and to other planets and they do have a fuel problem, what technology are they using that allows them to do this? They send space crafts millions of miles into outer space. This government is so wicked that it is unbelievable, they continue to allow giant corporations to get away with murder.

  8. I emphatically disagree with this propaganda. To intentionally misinform the public would put one in the category of domestic enemy as described in the oath of public office and military. I hope this is a case of “off the grid” not screening their writers. Are my heirloom seeds truly not GMO?

    • If you have a running water car bring it to their attention and we’d all love to know how to do this. Photos, not a link to a youtube video by some anonymous person. Also, also offer no proof of their ‘crime,’ i.e. proof their info about physics is someone incorrect in a way to deceive us.

      • I’m almost positive I saw a water-fueled car on the Science Channel (channel 284 on DirecTV) made by Opel. I believe it was fueled only by water but I can’t remember exactly. They showed it being built in the factory and all the science behind it, and it running on the road like a champ. You could check it out.

        Only thing was it cost $100,000 to purchase.

    • Knosis Popodopolus

      And you can look at the governmental cover-ups and not think this? Get your glasses checked!

      • When the article says they couldn’t find a working system, how is that proof of coverup? Of course there could be coverup by big oil… but YELLING AND SAYING THEY”RE PART OF A CONSPIRACY is not helpful nor proof. Show us your car. Show Off The Grid your car. They could not find a real working model. Thats all this says.

  9. I spent many hours trying to get the Brown’s gas (HHO) to work on my 2000 Honda Civic. I built the Water4Gas and the Smack’s hydrolizers. There may have been a very small bump up in the MPG right after installation, not much to speak of, but the engine ran noticeably smoother. After a couple of fill-ups later the mileage was right back where it was when I started. Apparently the car computer notices the extra oxygen in the exhaust and richens the fuel mixture to compensate for it, negating the HHO setup. I then built a device to manually lean out the fuel which had no noticeable gain either.

    I burned up my alternator experimenting with these devices and that was the point where I gave up. I am glad I did it because I learned a lot about electrolysis and the inner workings of my car. But if you want to experiment with this, you need to know that it is high maintenance and is potentially dangerous.

    • Did you miss the issues explaining the need to electronically adjust O2 analyzer input to Fuel Control Module to prevent fuel / air mixture correction due to higher exhaust gas O2 content from improved combustion characteristics? This is not required on older vehicles using carburetor for fuel / air mixture.

  10. I Am a Mecahnical Engineer and I find that your assumptions abot the Laws of Thermodynamics are somewhat flawed! The separation of Hydrogen and Oxygen from H2O has been accomplished without the loss of energy through an Electrodynamic Cheimical Process of Ionization whereby the water molecule is separated by means of mediating the covalence of each Atom by the use of Positive and Negative Electrons!

    When I was the owner of an R & D company, we were involved with an inventor who had successfully developed a water fuled engine and tested it very successfully by driving a water powered vehicle across the United States back in the 1980’s! But the U.S. Givernment stepped in and bought the Patent, and buried it in the archives deep in Washington D.C. never to be seen again! This is what powerful people do when they see that they are being threatened with the TRUTH! The OIL lobby is very powerful and is being used to stiffle individual initiative by anyone! They are to heavily invested in OIL!

    I trust that this will shed a little light on this topic!

    RGR

    • Do you have the patent # – i’d like to check this out. Also, I am not an engineer, but isn’t the ” use of Positive and Negative Electrons” called electricity?

      • Bloodyrich, you are correct. When DC current is applied to water with closely spaced electrodes, it separates the hydrogen and oxygen. This is called electrolysis

        • So electricity is being used- the comment I was making was that this poster implied the separation of water into H & O was being done without the need of electricity, but by a mechanical means. If they need electricity to separate the atoms, then re-combine to get electricity, they are back to square 1 [law 1] minus any loss due to friction etc [law 2]. Only some type of mechanical system, acting as a catalyst, would operate in the manner described, and the catalyst & water would be a type of battery I guess…
          To every one saying OTGN are part of some conspiracy by running this ‘propaganda’, show us the working model, and not a link to youtube. They are saying according to available information, there isn’t a working system. One day I am sure some awesome form of power manipulation that allows us to run vehicles like this may be found. But the people commenting who say its real but the conspiracy covers it up, show us.
          Thanks to those who have tried & given their results on this board.

    • Back in the early 1980’s a gentleman who was a friend of a friend of mine told us he had a tablet that when added to a gas tank with water in it would run the car on the water. He then had one of the other men who were there pour a large amount of water in his gas tank. He then put in the tablet about the size of a small marble. He then had the car owner start the car and drive it around quite a bit with just the water in the gas tank.. The car started and actually ran okay., as if it had gas instead of water. Maybe this was the patent that the government bought from this fellow. The fellow was an older man and is probably passed on by now.

    • TRUER WORDS WERE NEVER SPOKEN.!!

  11. Are you running one of these such engines? show us this article is wrong then

  12. I believe that a country who is entirely dependent on imported fossil fuel energy will be the ones to develop, perfect and market an alternative technology. In fact I am surprised that it hasn’t happened already, or has it??

    • Check out technology used to convert natural gas to liquid fuels at standard temperature and pressure in Qatar. Process is reported to be econmically competitive with gasoline produced from $21 / bbl crude.

    • You are very naive, no offense. This country is not controlled by the President, or Congress, or anyone we know, but by an international cartel that owns the Fed, and all of the central banks in the world, with some notable exceptions. These people control the government, these people make war-for-profit, and they THRIVE on control. Can you imagine what would happen to that control were this technology to flourish? No way would they allow this to happen. Not on your life. Or mine.
      I agree with some of the commenters here that say this article is very flawed in its assumtions. The laws of thermodynamics are not being broken by systems that employ the most efficient means to break the bonds of the water molecule. THAT is the flaw in their thinking.
      Stanley Meyer used a pulse circuit to actually shake apart the bonds, allowing a much lower current to be employed than previiously thought. One professor lays out the theory very eloquently; I’ll post his name when I remember it! (serious though)
      I thoroughly believe in the idea that a car can be run on water. It just has to be done right. All the hucksters that sell kits to increase mileage haven’t a clue what they are missing.
      When you consider the idea that Tesla had a system to broadcast free electrical power to the entire nation, when you think about the little device that was given us by an offworld civilization, that uses the power inherent in the vacuum of the universe(!) to power literally anything that is plugged into it…a water powered car is not outside the boundaries of an open mind. Oh yes, let us not forget the electrinium battery that can run forever, given us by that 54 year old professor who mysteriously died in his car at the airport (Geez, I wish I was better with names!).
      Anyway, the wickedness of the dark forces controlling this country and most of the world knows no bounds, and I wouldn’t put anything past them for cover-ups.
      TBC…

  13. Wood and biomass gasification is completely renewable.

  14. Sorry, but the author does not seem to have done his homework, or the research was very limited.

    A closed loop water energy system is not practical, unless you have perpetual motion, so why even consider it? External energy must be added into the system from an outside energy source (solar, power grid, home electrical outlet, battery pack, conversion of another fuel etc.). The water can still be recycled in a closed loop (if desired), but new energy must be added to replace the energy used.

    The problem has always been the storage of the hydrogen “energy” until it is needed for energy production.

    The other systems where H2 (or HOH) is added to the fuel does depend upon how much is injected into the system, as well as how it is done. Again, you can’t get something for nothing.

    Newer cars are already relatively efficient compared to their older counterparts. However the technology is outdated and “dirty” for the environment. H2O systems offer the possibility of a clean renewable energy source – no CO2 emissions!

    • What did he leave out? I find everything you say correct – and seems to agree with article. You mention the 2 types that the article mentions, and the issues with both. You sounded like there is a 3rd type the article left out… And end with how h2o systems off possibility- but what is that possibility if the 2 types are flawed?

  15. Most of the water for fuel systems I have investigated are NOT actually using water (hydrogen) as fuel, rather, they are generating hydrogen through a very simple hydrolysis system (granted, I am not an engineer or mechanic) to increase the efficiency of the engine which inherently is only about 70% efficient and generates a lot of waste going out of your exhaust (and pollution). The improved efficiency of your engine is said to increase mileage upwards of 25%. Not a bad deal I think for about under $250 investment.

    • That sounds about what I have heard from others who looked into systems – but I have yet to hear a verified [to me personally] actually getting the 25%.
      regarding the original commenter saying how they talk of liquid then switch to gas, um, thats what their point was,. They talked about advances made, but it required liquid. Good luck getting liquid, and also good luck getting to run as well in standard combustion engine. You won’t get the 15% to 25% claimed is their point, because the increased efficiency was only achieved in a lab, with specialized engines, very lean gas, and liquid H. That is not OffTheGrid ‘pulling the wool over anyones eyes’ switching from liquid to gaseous H= that is their point – we won’t have easy access to liquid..
      If anyone here RUNS a water car please present us with the facts – I do not, so i cannot claim they do or do not work- but if OTGN investigates available info and finds the theory presented as not valid, doesn’t mean their part of a conspiracy. Who has one? And not ‘my friend’s best friend’s brother -in-law works for some guy who….’ What didn’t work? What did? What helps improve efficiency? Only someone who has one can state with authority

      • I bought a set of plans to build the apparatus/device and I can tell you from experience that they are so complex, hard to read and understand, and the parts can be hard to come by or hard to make. In therory, this thing could power an internal combustion engine but some tweaking of both the hydorgen producing unit and the engine/carburation/fuel delevery system woulde be necessary. I’m no enginer but I do know something about engines and compression ratios and what it takes to get the correct combination. While it may be possible to build an onboard device to seperate molecules of water into its elements, with hydrogen as the only fuel (no hybrid mixtures of hydrogen and gasoline) the elements would have to be recombined in the engine under the correct combination of fire/spark, pressure/compression, air/oxygen and fuel/hydrogen to create the mechanical energy/combustion that could be tranformed to do work just like an engine is designed to do. Just as an internal combustion gasoline engine would have to be converted/upgraded to burn ethanol so it is with the “waterburner”. They say 1500 miles per gallon of water is possible. If I ever get this thing built and installed in my truck we wil see if this is bogus or what! Until then I’ll keep working on my still and mini-funny car.

        • good luck. If you have success I’dl ove to know, and discuss

        • Heavyduty, The internet directions and kits are far more complicated than they need be. It ain’t rocket science ! But then again, maybe it is! I am no expert by any means, so if I come off that way, I apologize. I’m just trying to pass on some info. we have found. My son has been playing with this for a little while now and has discovered (maybe rediscovered) some helpful things in the mfg. of thses little hydrogen fuel cells. We have literally spent $0 and have mfgd. 5-6 small ones from parts laying around the pole barn. We do alot of work building cars and welding and do have a relatively wide selection of misc. parts to choose from, but so far the wiring, terminal mat’l, tubing (hose), plates, and plastic box have all been made from spare parts. The experimental part is determining what grade of s/s is best for the plates, what spacing between the plates works best, what thickness for the plates and what type of electrolyte if any is best. We are in no way ready to go into production or anything of the sort, but we have seen proof that they work on some of the little prototypes my son has thrown together. His results are actually better than the “kit” ones on the internet. He says when he discovers the magic formula of the plate thickness to spacing and quantity and surface areas he’ll be ready for a permanent install on a vehicle. In a few tests over a 5-7 day period the best average MPG increase was about 3-4 mpg. All this is done with no real measured metering of the gas other than just natural flow from the hydrogen buildup in the cell. You can hook up propane directly to your fuel rails and basically achieve same type of results with no fancy equipment or metering. I’m not saying that is a good way to do it and you could get into big trouble, but in tiny amounts it helps out accleration and MPG. The only problem is you’re paying for propane and gas and there may not be any savings at all. The hydrogen is free, so any increase is good. The bigger/more effective the cell is the better mpg gain. Where the effective cutoff point is I have no idea. Maybe it would become harmful to engine, sensors, catalytic converters and maybe not. I do know that when submerged in the cell water a piece of rusty steel will get cleaned of rust. I can’t help but think with proper atomization and metering that this is a viable “help” in the quest for the MPG. If nothing else it’s a fun project for a father and son to do together.

  16. Now people we all know we have the best politicians that money can buy.
    I will say this as a country we are getting what we deserve.
    We kill and mame women and children all over the world to keep
    this sick bunce of money loveing fools in their high and lofty officies.
    Our time has come, hope it ends soon.

    Al

  17. I genuinley believe that hydrogen is the answer to all our energy woes. Why? First, It and carbon are the the two most prevalent elements there are in the earth, the solar system, the galaxy, and the universe. So there can be no one person or group of people who garner a contolling intesrest in this lelemnt no matter what the location or scale. Secondly, the separation of hydrogen and oxygen from water is accomplished by electolosis, which oversimplified is sticking an electic probe in a batch of water and collecting the resulting hydrogen ad oxyegen in accumulaors. If this were done with a solar cell or wind generator, then the energy expended in manufacuring the hydrogen would be very cost effective and make the cost of the hydrogen CHEAPER than gasonline. From there, the sky is the limit, fule cells in cars, fuel cells in houses, hydorgen burning engines, etc, etc.
    The nation of Iceland has started a few years back by converiing existing gasonline stations into hydogen stations. No need for expensive trucks to bring the gas in, nor for expensive pipelines. Instead, each station already has water and electricity run to it. they generate the hydrogen at the fuel station and use it to fill up buses and publically owned vehicles. the energy to make the hydrogen comes from geothermal vents to which they hooked up steam generators. Instead of listening to why or how it cannot be done, the needed oomph seems to be upon us the public to make it happen. Then, some ingenious soul will tweak it in a way that they can make money and the masses appreciate the service or ease of filling up and will reward this emnterprising person with their money.

  18. From my own personal experience, I know for a fact that genuine water powered cars do exist. During 2008 while in the Philippines I was able to obtain a phone number of a Filipino inventor I had previously read about on the web. My wife who speaks Tagalog was instrurmental in arranging a meeting with him. He showed me his 4 door Toyota sedan in which he had designed & installed a 12V electrolysis unit to power a 4 cylinder engine. He demonstrated that no gasoline was being used to power the car but also mentioned that he had ruined quite a few engines before finding the right tuning for running straight HHO gas. He also allowed me to drive it around the block within his gated subdivision. The car accelerated fine & dripped water out of the exhaust the whole time it ran. Do a search on You Tube for Daniel Dingel & you’ll find several videos. Hydrogen power from water is for real.

  19. This is an absolutely terrible article. In the future, I will be somewhat skeptical of any information you send.

  20. I see hydrogen as an effective storage solution for solar power. Solar derived electricity would run a hydrogen extraction device for storage during the day and the stored hydrogen could be used to power vehicles or run a stirling engine to power an electric generator during the evening. There is a very real need to come up with more ways to store energy other than batteries. This does work!

  21. Honda has created a fuel cell that runs on Natural Gas with the by product being water and hydrogen.
    Not only that, In 2003 Honda established an experimental Home Energy Station that generates hydrogen from natural gas for use in fuel cell vehicles, while supplying electricity and hot water to the home through fuel cell cogeneration functions.
    This technology does work and very well, I might add.
    http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/FCX/station/
    If the country establishes CNG fuel stations…it’s a go for the Civic CNG car anyways.
    CNG is the real future with hydrogen as it’s by product. That is efficiency that is hard to beat.

    Off the grid needs to get with the real program….
    Czech it out…..

  22. Interesting article but I am much more interested in the recent announcements concerning the compressed air powered car being produced in India. Can we get some space here to learn more about that?

  23. For me. I believe in the Hydrogen on Demand theory. Of course not all units are equal.
    I had a 2003 Ford F-350 V-10 crewcab, long bed, 35inch tires, and a leveling lift kit. With the Hydrogen on Demand product that I purchased paid for itself 5 times over when gas was $5.00 per gallon and then some. My truck went from 6 miles to the gallon to 16 miles to the gallon. Plus, a definite 30 percent increase in horsepower. I felt like I needed a shift kit like the old days when I had a muscle car. I thought wow !! This is fun.
    Thinking all the money that I had spent on my muscle car to get some additional horsepower versing to get this kind of power ! It is the way to go. Especially to still get that kind of mileage. To my understanding the Product Unit has been upgraded and even better. But have kept the advertising results the same.
    It is always your call, to explore find out what is going on around you.
    I see articles all the time, like what this article is saying . For one Popular Mechanics didn’t say too many good things about them either in several articles. So we have all of these articles or publications that we believe in & trust.
    I know better. I got the results that paid for itself many times over.

  24. I too agree this article is VERY misleading, obviously written by one that hasn’t made much effort (if any) to find truth, rather spouting misapplied laws of physics and assumptions to derive at at a most likely preconceived albeit “false” conclusion.

    Like many others I have had success with a fuel cells on 2 different vehicles. The first system I built was a multi-plated HHO system that I used on a 1993 Ford F350 3/4Ton resulting in a mpg increase of 50%. The 2nd was a modified 6-cell “Water4Gas” type system on a 01′ Silverado p/u resulting in a mpg increase of 30%.

    There are 2 vital parts to a HHO system for modern vehicles with computers;
    #1 the electrolyser and
    #2 an electronic device to override the vehicle computer

    Moisture created from the electrolyser is picked up by the O2, MAP and/or MAF sensors. The sensors send a signal back to the vehicle computer and the computer sees the fuel too lean and makes it rich, which lowers your mpg. You can get around this by disconnecting/disabling the O2 sensors and/or running a potentiometer “piggy back” on the MAP (or MAF if no MAP) sensor thus varying the fuel mixture by controlling the signal to the vehicles computer. Now, with this control, you can lean the fuel mixture and get the increased mpg. The moisture added by the electrolyser allows this, otherwise if you lean it out too much w/o an electrolyser, you’ll burn your valves. Older vehicles (like the 1973 Ford) are much easier as they don’t have a vehicle computer to deal with, only O2 sensors to disconnect or disable with aluminum foil, spacers, etc.

    Bottom line, You CAN increase your fuel mileage a significant amount with an HHO system, no doubt about it. You must however deal with the signal from the sensors to your vehicle computer or you’ll be fighting a loosing battle. Most people who have tried one with no success, have skipped this 2nd part (it’s not easy).

    The best HHO systems that I know of today are “Dry Type” using multiple plates, BUT you MUST install the potentiometer on newer vehicles with computers. Both devices are readily available on ebay for about $300 total. When avg gas prices bust $5/gal, you’ll be installing a HHO system or trading in your SUV for a small 4 cyl, (which BTW have even better increased mpg% with HHO systems)~!!

    My next venture is to run my generator (equipped with 12V output for the electrolyser after a battery start) with just HHO (water only), no gasoline. Some claim to have done it successfully with timing adjustments. If this works effectively, I’ll have back up emergency electricity using only water as fuel~!

    • Elected 4 Life, I really appreciate getting to hear your first hand experience with this unusual technology. I’m only just beginning to learn about using water to power cars, and am wondering if you could recommend a “how to” kit that I could buy. You mentioned a “Dry Type” using multiple plates – would this work with my old ’97 Suzuki Esteem? I have no experience with mechanics so I would need to find a user friendly instruction kit. I’ve heard of http://www.runautowithwater.com/ – are they reputable? I’m very anxious about the state of the world and am looking to become more self-sustained in any way I can, so any advice you could offer this beginner would be greatly appreciated.

  25. Elected4Life can you tell us more about your game plan with your generator.
    We all need to work together to move forward in this economy.

  26. Look into 6 cycle engines.
    This concept uses a 4 cycle gas or diesel engine, then adds 2 strokes to complete the cycle.
    The first of the two additional cycles injects water into the combustion chamber which turns to steam power.
    The last cycle collects the water/steam.

  27. As a researcher, publisher, and manufacturer of very efficient on demand hydrogen systems (since 2008, we have sold many thousands of kits around the world in over 20 countries), I take offense at the conclusion of this article.
    While no one has yet duplicated Stan Meyers work on the molecular disassociation of water at the nuclear level, there are many of us working towards that now. But in the meantime, many of us have developed decent “on demand hydrogen” systems that are quite capable of increasing mileage while dramatically reducing the pollution from emissions.
    I tell people to think of it as a “Combustion Catalyst”, not a fuel replacement. Because hydrogen burns so much more quickly (10 times as fast as gasoline), and is injected into the engine with 33% PURE oxygen, the normal air/fuel is “catalyzed” to burn much more efficiently. The energy is extracted where it matters most- inside the engine, instead of out the tailpipe- where it has to be treated to remove emissions. This is why emissions are reduced so dramatically- because they are being burnt up and converted to work, instead of being wasted. We have an actual emissions chart on the mileage results page linked below- take a look and you will understand WHY this works.
    The hydrogen systems we sell do NOT require ceramic coated engines and 10,000 psi kevlar wrapped storage tanks that make hydrogen impractical to all but the wealthy. Nothing is stored- it is only made when engine runs and stops when engine turns off. Our systems run from $500 to $800 complete and average 20-50% increases in mileage, though some of our customers do even better as you can see on our results chart here: http://www.hhokitsdirect.com/HHO_mileage_results.php

    We are one of the oldest manufacturers around, and not only have a great track record, but we are in the final stages of testing and development of our robust Truckers Unit- engineered from the ground up. Our original tests on a 1995 Freightliner (after three tanks of diesel) got him an increase of 6 mpg to 8.75 mpg. This one has been under development for a year and a half at no small expense.

    On demand hydrogen (more commonly known as hho), is growing and being verified every day. The cat is out of the bag and many builders are testing their own home made units. It is a wave that is impossible to stop, despite the naysayers and false articles to the contrary.

    And since this article is about suppressed technology, let me just say, that we HAVE experienced it first hand. We were attacked 7 times last year in attempts to shut us down (that is what happens when you are an industry leader). We have been banned from advertising on Google, we have had our YouTube account permanently deleted, we have been falsely attacked on a certain ratings site by 7 liars that have never bought our product or even asked me questions about it. We have had someone file a false report with Google and been de-listed/de-indexed from the search engine (two weeks we just disappeared), and we have had multiple attacks on our web servers and email servers (DDOS attacks) that required moving to a very secure hosting company and consulting with a cyber investigator working with the FBI.

    Let me assure you- none of that would be happening if this was a scam or false technology- quite the contrary. Someone is afraid of our results and advances in this technology. But we refuse to be intimidated or bullied; and if they didn’t like what we have done until now, they are really going to hate us when we release our breakthrough in commercial generators for the trucking industry!

    If any of your subscribers have questions and want real answers- they can contact me at our main website:http://www.hhokitsdirect.com/ or email me at [email protected]

    Bob Volk, CEO
    Transitional Technologies, LLC

    • SO if i read that correct- you use X amount of energy [resistance to generator] to get current used with a catalyst to break H2O into HHO. Due to the inefficiencies of internal combustion engine running gasoline alone, when you add H to the mix, you not only get the extra energy of burning H, but a synergy of the H & gasoline, that overcomes the energy needed to make the current to break up water molecule, as well as make up for some system inefficiency, therefor, better mpg of the gas alone + the energy of burning H. correct? People forget tat adding H of course will improve mileage – you’re adding a 2nd fuel, that doesn’t get counted in the gallon measurement… The key is if the amount of extra miles per gallon of gasoline is not less than the drag on system to make electricity to break up the h2o. If this is the case- kudos… i’d like to see this.

      • You seem to be confused. Yes, there is extra energy from the combustion of the hydrogen, but it first consumed that amount of energy plus various inefficiencies to produce that hydrogen from the fuel consumed by the combustion engine. The real test is whether or not the miles per gallon increases after the system is installed compared to the miles per gallon obtained before the system was installed.

        Also, run both tests long enough to assure that the difference in mpg is a real long term difference rather than a transient effect. A former associate of mine described tests that were showing better than 100 mpg – for the first 1/8 gallon of fuel. Then the mpg dropped. They discovered that their system was burning off the lighter compounds of the gasoline mix first, which gave a false impression of fantastic gas mileage. It just didn’t persist for the total quantity of fuel. Little errors like that can really mess up a test. (They were using a system that heated the fuel, using waste engine heat, in the hope of getting more complete combustion in the cylinder.)

        James Harris

        See my next comment on

        • yes- I stand corrected, i was referring to a system that adds H produced off-vehicle. For an on-demand H generator system, you’re right, it is purely the change in MPG. If the extra power used by generator to make the H is more than made up by the new power from the H gas if the mpg goes up- you are correct.

      • Yes- but not only H2 (as in current models that separate, compress and store in 10,000 psi tanks). The gas is contrived of H, O, H2, O2 and even some amount of H20, all held in a gas that is not compressed, but used immediately, on demand. The only energy used is that to free it- disassociate it from the water bond. In our systems- that is under 500 watts of electrical energy. Since 746 watts is the equivalent of 1 horsepower, we are using less than 1 horsepower to create a very robust, clean and fast burning fuel. BY adding that into the chamber during combustion, the fuel is burned faster (more complete), there is less wasted heat energy (we have seen several degree drops in engine temps in some cars), and the greatest evidence is the huge drop in emissions (something none of the current formulas on Thermodynamics take into account). The energy that would normally be wasted as it flows out the exhaust, and forced through catalytic converters to try and reduce even more, is instead, extracted where it matters most- inside the combustion chamber. That energy can be immediately extracted…making the existing fuel far more energetic.
        We have had some of our customers report a 50% increase when adding our hho generator system to their CNG or LPG systems. They notice better power as well.
        That is also why there is a point of diminishing returns using this fuel. You can only extract so much wasted energy, before there is no more to pull out or waste. It is also why you would need far more than current systems produce to actually run a car solely on hho (about 10-20 times the current amounts produced).
        We are not there yet- even though many of us are working on it.
        For right now- it is a good start to use it as an efficient “Combustion Catalyst”- immediately reduce emissions, and increase mileage.

    • The original report is excellent as far as it goes. It correctly identifies what is not possible with a water electrolysis system and why. The area of potential improvement is indeed the possibility that adding hydrogen to the fuel mixture might improve the combustion efficiency within the cylinder, thus increasing fuel mileage. I’ve used the word fuel mileage to cover both gas and diesel engines. Let’s have hard measured facts rather than empty claims.

      At issue with a gas engine is whether any improvement in mileage is produced by leaning the fuel mixture or in fact because of an improved combustion. The down side of leaning the fuel mixture is the risk of expensive damage to the engine from the increased temperature that leaning the fuel mixture causes.

      The presence of a small quantity of water may effectively prevent that undesired temperature increase while providing a source of gas for expansion.

      The ultimate question is whether a small quantity of hydrogen mixed with the gasoline produces a faster and more complete combustion of the fuel in the cylinder. In addition to the foregoing factors, mixing a quantity of hydrogen and oxygen to the fuel in a diesel engine would seem to improve efficiency during acceleration; thus reducing the black cloud of unburned diesel fuel as a truck comes up to speed. That increase in diesel combustion is a likely source of improved mileage in a diesel engine. Again, hard measured facts are desirable rather than mere unsupported claims.

      James Harris

    • Thank you Bob. Seems to me the people at “off the grid” should get you to write a correcting article so the truth gets published..

  28. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, My Mother whom is over 80 years has ridden in the Steam engine vehicle.
    I also had a friend and neighber, in the Detroit Mi., area whom invented a carborator between 1969 and 1971, whom sold it to one of the big three for $35,000.00 (unfortunately)..which at that time the large v-8 engines, hemi’s etc .. I was too young at the time to influence and he required funds for his family.
    Well it got over 100 mpg at that time. Can you imagine what it could be if in the honorable hands? Locating this person and or his family is one of my adventures.
    Water-Steam engines have been an integral part of the cars REAL story !!! thank you

    • Did he sell the patent? if so – it can be proven they are withholding the technology [lookup the patent]. If not – you can legally use it. Do you know the theory behind its improvement in efficiency? Maybe reverse-engineer….

  29. Feb. 13, 2012: In 1807, Inventor Robert Fulton successfully built the first commercial steamboat (first named “North River Steamboat” later called “Clermont”) that carried passengers from New York City to Albany, New York. It travelled 300 miles in 32 hours. Very, very slow compared to modern gas-powerd ships. A steam-powered car is also a possibility. But then it will be a very, very slow car compared to current gasoline-powered cars that can run at a speed of 200 to 300 miles per hour. If you are not in a hurry. you may ride a steam-powered car and make a trip at perhaps one mile per hour. However, modern technology may improve the speed of steam-powered cars in the future. – Roland.

    • My impression is that many speed records were established by early steam cars. One of the Stanley brothers set some incredible speed records that were unsurpassed by internal combustion cars for many years.

  30. Check You-Tube, “HHO” – it’s true, self build kits and how to on line! I am doing one now, cars CAN run off hydrogen gas, its extremely flammable! Check it out!

    • Please let us know how it turns out. I was a bit put off with the requirement to adjust fuel system or timing or computer to use hydrogen gas. ie can I still get home if my converter broke?

  31. Having a background in electrical engineering, audio engineering and computer science, water engines do sound plausible. First it is not a closed system or perpetual motion machine, it does consume water because the exhaust is water and oxygen and hydrogen. Not just water, second a battery source is required to start. The concept as I best understand is that hydrogen burns roughly 27 times fast than carbon and requires an adjustment in timing. Mostly likely plus a few degrees from top dead center as opposed to many low octane petrol gas systems which would be a few degrees before top dead center. As for separation of the water to hydrogen and oxygen, I understand that a high frequency electrical current about 22khz breaks the compound bond freeing hydrogen and oxygen to be sucked away to the heads for explosion. Knowing audio engineering, a hi-frequency uses less energy to generate than low frequencies. The only questions I have is what are the amounts needed and used to create the needed horsepower? We should create engines using hydro-electro-mechanical systems and ditch the computers. Use computers and robots to design and build systems so precise that proper analog gauges with simple maintenance could make long lasting clean and inexpensive transportation.

    • What does the Hydrogen industry use to make H from water? That would be the most efficient process I assume, unless they want to make less money and spend more to get their H gas. So the energy to break the H2O & get H would have to be less than the power achieved from burning H. Why not start with H gas made at home, and store on board? If it is a storage issue, think about the energy needed to break H2O into H & O. Is isn’t insignificant.

      Btw- the perpetual motion machine is the other concept- not burning the H but converting back to water to get electricity for a motor. There would be no exhaust [well, if you wanted to, but then you’d have to store more water than necessary- why give off water if you need water as input? ] People confuse the 2 designs… remember the 2 ‘water car’ ideas that we have any data on are totally different. You’re discussing using energy to break water into H & O, burning the H & O in a conbustion engine I assume [am i correct?]. The other is to break the h & O, then put it back together to get electricity for motor… that one has a problem in that you can’t get more electricity than it took to break it up..

  32. I would have to agree with you. What this article does is to make assumptions comparing liquid and define systems avilable to do the same when such is not the case. I have a friend whom is an electrical engineer and very intelegent. He spent a LOT of time researching and learning all he could. He took his Toyota truck that got 16 mpg and modified it with system to seperate hydrogen (gaseous state) to enhance his trucks performance. He had access to things most people don’t. He installed the system and then modified the computer control system in order to acknowledge the hydrogen addition. He used emission testing equipment and all kinds of other monitoring systems to be sure the engine was running as it was supposed to.

    As he worked for several weeks in this process (to determine for himself) to see if this could work. After complying with emissions testing and all other monitoring to be sure everything was still running correctly, he has tested his milage over the past 2-3 years. He has gone from 16mpg to 26mpg. He told me a year ago, if he kept his speed at 55 mph he could obtain as high as 36 mpg. Of course going that slow drives you nuts, especially on the freeway. So he averages 26 – 30 mpg on average. Yes he has documented it all.

    So, I agree, this article is fuitless as far as validity. I’ve always found that those who state what can’t be done are being passed up by those doing it.

    • Is the hydrogen separated out of water on the vehicle, or does he have a separator elsewhere, and he ‘fuels’ his vehicle with hydrogen? The issues i have seen, is that the energy to make the hydrogen is more than the energy you get burning hydrogen, so making on-baord means you use more energy than you get. That is one reason people have tried using the H to make water onboard instead of burning it, to gain electricity for a electrical motor. Making H off-board earlier & loading it into vehicle is fine – a vehicle needs to store energy. And using it with gasoline to increase mileage is also cool. This article seems to say the most efficiency seems to come when liquid, not that it didn’t help when burned with gas. Of course he gets better mileage now- he is adding a 2ndary fuel. Do you know how much H he burns per mile, and therfore, his ‘real’ mileage is 26 mpg of gas +?amount of hydrogen. The extra 10 miles we assume comes from the H. So how much H did that take, and how much energy did it take to make that much H? Thsi seems to be the moist successful method, but it still doesn’t mean it is more efficient than plain-ol gasoline.. not enough data – so please continue! I am excited to learn more!

      • I can’t tell you all the details of the process, but I can give you a quick overview. Just so you know, we were neighbors for years until last July when my wife and I moved 20 miles away. But we still keep in touch.

        There is a company that produces the kit he used. But simply installing a kit will not get the results eveyone thinks. It doesn’t take a lot of current to seperate the molecules with the current electrical system of any vehicle provides. There is a chemical that is added to the water to make the current pass with relative ease to cause the molecules to seperate. Since the chemical is simple for caring current, it last a very long time. The water is all that you need to add periodically.

        As the hydrogen gas is released, it is taken in through the intake. By the way this process is started just before you try and start the car. With all the other testing, emissions and such, the fuel monitoring was changed as well. He used resistors in the electrical lines in order to change the amount of fuel being injected into the engine. Since the hydrogen is also being introduced, less gas is required. How much resistence and exactly which lines they were put into, I don’t know. I have never sat down with him to discuss the details.

        But, you have to know that if it runs too lean, the engine temperature is affected. So there were a lot of varibles that were monitored in order to fine tune it for a good mixture and maintain all the parameters that are required for normal engine operation.

        I will have to get a hold of him to get further details on the specifics of the kit, the installation, and his notes if he will release them. He had has some health issues recently that put him in the hospital for a week he’s really just starting to get around again.

        He did tell me that the older cars with naturally aspirated engines (that a carburator set up for those not understanding) is much easier to modify.

      • Again, I’m no expert, far from it, but the cells my son is making are sealed units. There is NO depletion of the water volume whatsoever that I have seen. Not to say that the water wouln’t become less effective over time, but I don’t think anything is being depleted. I think it is being Mfg’d in the closed cell. A 4 liter cell would most likely last for 6 months, if not forever to my way of thinking. But, again we haven’t performed any long term tests to find out IF there is somehow evaporation occurring in the “closed” cells. If it were easy enough to get to, I would have no objection if I had to fill it every day if I could pick up 4,5, or 10 MPG. When we get the final version I want to make one for my Ford F-350 with a V-10 in it. I’ve chipped it and done various things to it and have HP out the yingyang, but the MPG is horrible no matter what. I can’t get a good reading for the 36″ tires throw the mileage off. I know I go from gas station to gas station so if I could p/u another 4-5 MPG it would make things tolerable. Also I seem to recall my son saying something to the effect of hydrogen burning hotter than acetylene. I wish he were here to back that up. I know he made a little mini torch out of junk that will cut thin steel plate thicker than 1/8″. He’s also a prankster. He filled a walmart plastic bag with hydrogen gas and touched it off with a fuse and it made a sparkler bomb sound like a lady finger. The shock wave hit me in the chest pretty hard from 50′ away.

    • Dana,

      Did your friend write a white paper on his process for adding the H2 and his findings? I would really like to read it particularly, if it definitively, mathematically, explains what is going on. Adding H2 to air in an internal combustion engine intuitively would improve ‘gas’ mileage. Ask your friend to be sure and include the electricity used in hydrolysis in order to crack the H2O molecules in the energy equations. If your friend can quantify his process and his results there are a LOT of investors who would love to do business with him!

      Thanks for your time.
      Scientist

  33. I am not a scientist , I have never invented or sold any energy technology , but I do not understand why we could not run cars on gaseous hydrogen produced from water and burned in the comustion chambers just like the cars that run on other bottled gases like propane or butane .

    • basically, it has to do with how much energy it takes to make the H gas out of water. A lot supposedly. But this seems to be the way to go….

  34. Lets see, if HHO works as all of you claim it does, especially those of you who sell these systems, why do the auto manufactures have these as standard equipment? Seems to me they could save billions of dollars buy not developing more efficient engines but simply adding a few hundred dollar device to their product. Why are there not shops that install HHO systems on every street corner in America and the world? You peddlers could franchise these shops and be multi billionaires over night. Why don’t they use these HHO units on jet engines ? Thousands of dollars would be saved by the airlines every time one of thier planes took off. Just random thoughts by a future billionaire who is developing a air powered car that runs forever without and type of fuel introduced into the vehicle.

    • Simple, they don’t work consistently on every kind of car. And these are not “bolt-on” or “Plug and Play” devices. You have to be a tinkerer to get thinks to work. As I stated earlier, I must not have enough tinker knowledge because I couldn’t get them to work in any beneficial way. A few years back, Coast-to-Coast radio program challenged one of these sellers to prove it. They installed it on a vehilce and came back a couple weeks later and the mileage on the vehicle DROPPED. The seller made some excuses, but it was not pretty. I think most of the people commenting here on how great these things are probably have one to sell to you. ;)

    • There is a very good practical reason why the automakers do not include these kits (beyond the control of mileage and various conspiracy theories). Install one on your own car and you will see why…
      We have installed quite a few on our own test cars, and continue to develop better, more efficient kits. That being said, they still require you to check the water reservoir on a regular basis. Depending on driving habits, water consumed can range from .25 liters a week to 1 liter a week. Currently- you MUST use distilled water or it will foul the plates and ruin its ability to make hydrogen.
      An auto dealer knows it is hard enough to get people to change their oil regularly, let alone introduce another system that must be checked and kept full. I think this is the number one reason- pragmatics.
      All of these can and are being addressed as the technology improves. But even so- you are not creating energy out of nothing. You are breaking the covalent molecular bond of water into its constituent gases and then using it. So water is being consumed (small rate- but nevertheless- still being consumed).
      Most of our customers (and we have sold many thousands of kits around the world), have no problem doing that for the benefits gained.
      When I first started researching this area in 2007, I was a total skeptic- didn’t believe it would work. But when Increased my full sized van (5.7 liter) mileage from 10 mpg to 14 mpg, I was hooked. That is a 40% increase. It saved me over $250 a month in gas bills and cost me one gallon of distilled water to do it at a total cost of $1.00.
      You have to remember this is really in the early adopter phase. I believe we will indeed see a very wide acceptance of these as the tech continues to advance, just like computers did in the early 90’s.

  35. Dear Buck, they do have cars now that run of hydrogen, Honda BMW and there maybe others. problem is they are too expensive at current production levels and you can’t just drive to your local gas station to “fill up”.
    As the prices come down they may be available much as coal powered cars are today. (ooops I mean electric cars”

  36. In answer to bloodyrich’s reply to Greg: “Are you running one of these such engines? show us this article is wrong then” Yes, I am and have been since the late 1960’s. The problem where most people go astray is they believe it has to be “either/or” Either all gas, etc or all hydrogen or some other form of alternative fuel. During the late 1930’s Germany began using water injection on their fighters in order get more horsepower. Search “water injection engines” By injecting water they effectively raised the octane rating. Simply stated: octane is rated by fuel propogation…how long it takes the fuel to burn across the combustion chamber. By adding water, the fuel propogation was slowed and no pre-ignition, pinging in US English, was experienced. This allowed the timing to be advanced. A longer burn, due to advanced timing and more complete burning of the fuel, gave more horsepower. After it was discovered what the Germans were doing and how they were doing it, others did the same or similar. I talked with a man who flew Corsairs as ground support off carriers during the Korean war. He said, “With the ordinance loads we were carrying (bombs), we would never have been able to get of the deck without water injection and the added HP it produced.” Another, who was an aircraft mechanic in Vietnam, told me the same basic story about B-52s: without the water injection they’d never been able to get off the ground. The extra horsepower can be translated into improved economy. But, you can’t have all your cake and eat it too, either maximum mpg or foot to the floor for maximum HP. Being able to advance the timing, or have a computer do it for you, increases the burn time, thus giving more economy from the same amount of fuel, mpg or hp applies here. This is not a stand-alone system but an adjunct to the already existing system. I began using water vapor induction/ water injection on my road race cars, customers drag race cars, tow vehicles and personal cars in 1967. I realized from 15% to 30% gains depending on the application, race car, car to go to the store, tow car and how the vehicle was driven, pedal to the metal or cruising down the main drag to the store or towing at a steady speed just slightly above the speed limit but not too much to incur tickets. Tickets nullify the money saved with mpg gains. HP was there if necessary for race applications, so were longer times between pit stops, and for getting out of tight spots, passing with a loaded trailer on behind, etc. I, and many of my friends and customers have used the system for years with little or no maintenance. Using the lowest 15% mpg increase figure I’ve experienced, usually much higher, and using 1000 gallons of fuel a year, at an arbitrary figure of $2.00 a gallon (lower in 1967 and higher now) equals a savings of $300.00 per year. Multiplying that figure by the years, 45, I’ve used the system comes to a savings of $13,500.00. Not bad for an original investment of under $100.00 for the instructions, plus parts. If I factor in the day it takes to assemble and install the system at $20.00 per hour, or $160.00, I have still realized a savings of $13,240.00. Does the system work? I wouldn’t still be using it if it didn’t. Where did I get it? http://www.mileageman1.com So, bloodyrich the answer is, some do and some don’t but to the best of my knowledge and many years of experience and experiments, there are no stand alone systems that are worth the expense to install and the possible problems that may arise. One friend who owns an auto parts store has a pile of hydrogen generators sitting by his back door the customers brought back. Some were quite unhappy due to the fact that engines had to be overhauled.

    • Knosis Popodopolus

      I was in the AF and we were taught the water injection systems made the air denser causing more efficient combustion.

    • cool- my grandfather told me about how he heard about it & so went ahead & made his own water injection on his model T. His wrapped copper pipes around headers to boil water & force it somehow into carb [i was too young to understand how that part was built]. But we know that works. he did in 20s or 30s… There is also nitrous injection. but i was asking about a ‘water-car’ – either running on hydrogen from splitting water atoms, or running on electricity derived from water. water injection just helps gas burn more efficiently.

  37. I do not wish to be unkind, but it is important to understand the “laws of physics” were not handed down at Mount Sinai with the 10 Commandments. They are not, in fact, ‘laws’ at all – rather, they simply define man’s CURRENT generally accepted belief about the ‘rules’ by which this orderly universe operates. They are not etched in stone, nor are they all universally accepted to be 100% accurate. Disagree? …consider a couple of easily found links:

    http://www.physorg.com/news169725980.html
    http://physicsbuzz.physicscentral.com/2011/11/another-law-of-physics-broken.html

    We DO NOT understand far more about this universe than we DO. I’d challenge that all advancements in technology we enjoy today are the result of “SOMEONE” pursuing what “EVERYONE” at the time was certain to be impossible.

    For the record, I’ve been involved in electronics and computer circuit design since the days when ‘everyone knew’ that circuits built with those silly little silicon chip diodes would NEVER be faster or more reliable than circuits built with vacuum tubes!

  38. Back in the 60’s there was a car developed that ran on water. The government came in, took everything and ordered the man to not do it again. My father saw the paper work sent from the government ordering him to not do this again, if he did, there were severe penalties involved for the man. This is when my father began to have his eyes opened about government involvement in American lives.

  39. I am in COMPLETE agreement that the BIG 5 oil companies are in cahoots to CONTROL the energy of the world not America alone.
    They are “pulling the wool” over the governments eyes and suckering the rest of us because we can’t do anything to them or about their tactics……
    I also agree that they have SUPPRESSED technology for years along with the auto makers to keep everyone filthy rich off of the use of fossil fuels…..

    • Before internet rapid information dissipation, magazines were the most common sources of energy related information this side of the patent office. A massive fuel preheater / carburetor named Houdalli appeared and disappeared in the1930s. In the 1950s Fish was the name that came and went the same route.
      During the energy crisis of the 70s a retired race car mechanic in Florida built an engine from stock parts complete with first stage turbocharger for fuel / water emulsification, second stage cooling water emulsion heater and final stage exhaust fuel heater producing 1 hp / cubic inch displacement and meeting all the newly imposed progressively stepped government emission standards. He was offered $50k for his efforts backed by an option that he couldn’t refuse.
      Another Florida team mounted a tractor engine in a production car demonstrating 40+ mpg, 60+ mpg and 80 mpg on three successive trips to Washing DC. They probably got sued for using American made materials without government permission.
      VW sale were doubling annually with with twice the mpg of American made monsters of the age. Exhaust emission standards ended their US beetle sales in 1976.
      The key to any change in energy policy now and for the last hundred years has failed to fit the government lock on corporate doors until diversification has guaranteed that their insider investment channels are kept open for their mutual benefit at the expense of the American consumer. Study the history of America’s number one 20th century inventor, Nikola Tesla. He figured out early that he had to get our from under the thumb of Thomas Edison.
      Choose any “industry” for comparison under the closed eyes of media “watchdogs” but take a deep breath before exposing your eyes to what lies under the lid.

    • Knosis Popodopolus

      They’re not “Pulling the wool over the governments eyes” they’re making multi-million dollar campaign contributions. Open your eyes.

  40. The people running the World’s banks and leading government officials (and those running the business empires that fund them) would NEVER ALLOW the release and distribution of ANY technology that would create an immediate, unpredictable and catastrophic upset to the global financial markets. Stability and control is required to protect the wealth and power of those running the show. Financial collapse of any particular market is OK as long as it can be anticipated and delayed long enough that funds of those ‘in the know’ can be shifted out of what is destined to fail and into what will then rise to take its place. Open release of a new game-changer technology would cause instant financial chaos, instant devaluation of futures shares – it would directly or indirectly impact all markets at the same time in incalculable ways – such unplanned chaos has not and will not be allowed.

    As for the ‘experts’ – whether related to health, climate, energy or whatever, no large, well-equipped research firm today will divorce itself from government and big business funding – and I’d say we are blind fools indeed if we believe such biased funding does not create biased conclusions.

    Furthermore, current experts in any technology can be counted on to fiercely resist any new technology that would result in a paradigm shift in understanding that would immediately make their hard won knowledge and position as ‘authority’ obsolete. No one fights for 50 years to be king of the hill just to passively let someone else claim a new game on a different hill!

    Because of this, pretty much everyone working on these alternate (or ‘impossible’) technologies today are amateur inventors with jobs, families and almost no funds or tools – but they posses passion and hope and the exercise of free will to chase an ‘impossible dream’ .

    Gee… when I was a kid, I thought that was pretty much what it meant to be AN AMERICAN!

  41. Knosis Popodopolus

    I agree. Maybe he’s part of the OPEC. It would seem to me that it’s possible that Hydrogen Gas is a viable alternative to fossil fuel. We have been using LP Gas for years. I’m no physicist but common sense dictates that the world can’t go on letting a few wealthy fat cats dictate policy to us. Let me assure you also that T. Boone Pickens and his compressed natural gas plan isn’t the answer. As proof of this let me report to the readers that Tulsa Oklahoma has Compressed Natural Gas buses running as we speak. About 6 weeks ago, a child riding on one of the buses smelled smoke and advised the bus driver. The woman who was driving the bus must have been told to be very careful because this brave woman immediately stopped the bus and got all of the passengers out and away from the bus, which, by the way, exploded and burned to the ground. The Boone Pickens Plan isn’t a viable alternative! WE are going to have to find one or go back to bicycles, horses, and shoe leather!

    • So far, the reason hydrogen has not been a viable alternative to fossil fuels is that it takes too much energy to separate out of water. Solve that problem & you’re golden.

  42. I LOVE YOU MARV123 (as a brother) :)
    Could Not Have Said It Better Myself!

  43. There are buses in use in california at this time and for more(accurate) information see Plug Power and Ballard Power. The byproduct left behind is water by removing a hydrogen atom. I take it its in the outer shell of the atom, which is considered as free electrons. Electrons vary in size and positive or negative polarity. General motors is in partnership with plug and they’ve gone into a partnership with Valiant which produces a product which will generate electricity and also heat your house among other things. These products are expensive now, but as demand increases the price should drop., Randy

    p.s. I invested in plug at $18 a share and sold for around $150, I kept some and put it in accounts for my granddaughters, as it’s a proven technoligy.

    • Ballard & Plug both seem to do hydrogen fuel cell, not water cars-is that what CA is running in buses now? thats cool… btw PLUG POWER is at $2.24/share, ballard at $1.37… either major stock splits or not same companies you refer to?

  44. These vehicles are also capable of running on gasoline also. They get good mileage and are green technology. If I rember right there are cars being produced and sold using this technology. And they are installing fueling stations in some of the major cities, also they contain a battery bank which you only have to plug in when your not using it to charge it.

  45. It is not only relatively easy but also very economical to increase the mileage of a standard car by using the electricity produced by the cars alternator to break water down to Hydrogen and oxygen. The oxygen is then introduced into the air intake and the hydrogen is introduced just before the air enters the cylinder. Hydrogen is much more explosive than gasoline and produces better combustion giving two or three more miles to the gallon. My son-in-law has done a dozen cars for his friends and all report at least some improvement in mileage.

  46. Do your own research on HHO fueled autos on You Tube and get with building one. A true no brainer,,,,, actually, even a child could split water with a home made generator – we did – and we are only carpenters. Nearly blew the porch roof off when we first ignited the hydrogen bubbles. Easy to install with a little creativity. You could also short circuit the job by looking in the classified in the rear of Mother Earth and purchase a generator and instructions to install and run one. Call Don Stratton in FL. – 813-477-5460 and pick his brain, (He actually has one – which is more than I can say for the mindless writer -ANDREW- ) Lots of town fleet cars are now running HHO fueled engines. Please tell me that “off the grid” isn’t completely bought and paid for by the Nefarious Cabal, commonly known as “THEY'” !!!!???? Just a note: You just have to give this project to our Universities and reward them with the same energy we did in the past with the kitchen refrigerator -something like $30 million was the prize. We will be all driving HHO fueled autos in a few years. No foul exhaust – or air – and freeeeeeee fuel. THAT, MY FRIENDS, IS A FACT, THAT FEW PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE, LEAVING THE POWER $$$ IN THE HANDS OF JUST A FEW SATANIC CORPORATIONS, WILLING AND ABLE TO DESTROY OUR BEAUTIFUL GOD GIVEN HOME……….

    • Lots of town fleet cars are now running HHO fueled engines.
      Can you tell me of any- i tried searching and kept only finding youtube videos.. thats not a reliable source alone.

  47. Who are you silly folks who think a 2 ton car of the 60’s-70’s could possibly get 100MPG..?? There is NOT enough energy to be extracted, even IF it was perfectly aerodynamic, and the engine was 100% efficient. Honda civics can get 50MPG, but only with careful driving habits and certainly NOT at altitude or in the hills.
    YES, we ‘could’ have more efficient engines and automatic transmissions, for sure. SO, I drive an 8,500LB+ service van and get 9 MPG…so, many of you have a little car that should get 4x+ the mileage.
    Every one can get 10% better mileage IF they tried. The best I’ve gotten was a trip with my trailer on back, payload, and all = 13,300LBS and I got about 12 MPG with turnpike speeds about 65-70mph. SO..does that mean, even with the auto trans, that your little Civic, being about 2100LBS with only the driver…’should’ get….75MPG…! any takers…???

  48. Why are you yelling? I can hear just fine thank you.

  49. I know this is a little off subject. But why can’t we just have electric cars that runs off of the sun/solar panels. I am really sick of any kind of gas station. There was a company a few years back that was suppose to be coming out with this really affordable photovalic sheets with incredible capacity to produce so much power. I guess they just want huge profits. I bookmarked the site years back, still they are quiet…… Why do these batteries for electric cars have to be so expensive oh that’s right those are the hybrid car batteries? WE really need an across the board solution not something that mostly works for giant gas hogs. My dream really is to buy and have it work without having to plug it in or take it to a gas station. Mankind still seems so primitive to me. The problem with bikes is that they are weather prohibitive and they have to share the road with big giant things. What if we had an electric car that was actually a hybrid of something like what Flintstones had cause I would definitely do that in a minute. I like the lithium batteries in my hand crank flash light if I could I would make all the lights in my apartment be like that. Just saying an article like this should just bring us all together to get out of our problems in this country. Amen?

  50. No really think Flintstones cause we all have sat in a car somewhere at a traffic light for somewhere between 2 and 4 minutes at least thousand times. Really our monetary system is about to fail and enslave us and we have got to do better than dickering over water enhanced engines or anything that seems out reach like this. Take care all.

  51. Wouldn’t it be much easier to use air?
    Air is basically hydrogen & oxygen.
    A carburetor that would seperate the hydrogen from the oxygen, releasing the pure oxygen back into the atmosphere, and burn the hydrogen as fuel….thus clean the air and help the ozone as we drive!

  52. I don’t think people realise that everyone has a hydrogen gas generator in their cars already, it’s called a starting battery. Your car battery generates hydrogen gas when it is recharging. On some batteries there are warning notices telling you to be cautious of making electrical sparks when you jump start another car, because of the explosive gas venting from the battery. Seems to me that these generators would work but hard to say if you would really gain anything because it would be like charging your battery continously all the time you are driving which takes energy to do that.

  53. How about off the grid actually performing a controlled test instead of just theorizing over the scientific laws of physics? I stated the article hoping that an actual measurable answer to the subject would be presented. Yeap I was disappointed.

  54. I build install and drive all my cars with hho kits on them. All i have to say is anyone who thniks that it does not work you have been brainwashed. In 1807 a Swiss inventer by the name of Francois Issac de Rivaz invented the first internal conbustion engine and it burned Hydrogen from water. That is fact not ficition. To bad big biz and politics dictate what works and whats good for them Why does Ford have Hydrogen test cars and trucks and vans? Please be open up your mind what do you think puts the Space Shuttle in to space. It cant all be smoke and mirrors.

  55. Dear Eviation, You must be crazy with such talk. Do you really believe what you say??? I HOPE SO ! As I was about to write basically the same thing you did when I came to your comments. My “crazy” but very mechanically inclined son got on to this “hydrogen” kick and from old parts and things laying around in our pole barn within 2-3 days had constructed a “cutting torch” of nothing but hydrogen that can cut thru 1/4 ” steel plate. In the same 2-3 day period he constructed a “hydrogen power cell”, again from scrap stainless steel and various hoses and wiring we had laying around the pole barn, and hooked it up to his Ford Explorer. Although the gain in MPG was not all that great (approx. 2-3 MPG) the 4″x8″x 8″ little power cell could be expanded in size to get a added 10-12 MPG without much trouble. If it will burn on it’s own and run a cutting torch, why could it not run a vehicle entirely on hydrogen ???? I think it could! He’s experimenting with various electrolytes (even tried GatorAid) to find a good mix and also the best grade of stainless steel for the plates. The next step he says is to develop proper valving. It works !! I’m in Missouri, “The Show Me State”, and that’s just what he did.

  56. I am by NO MEANS an expert but I’m also aware of numerous individuals who have been responsible for breakthroughs in fuel efficiency. What strikes me as very odd is the fact that when Henry Ford was making his first vehicles, their fuel average efficiency was about 25-30 mpg. What I find most amazing and quite pathetic is the fact that over 100 years later, the ‘best’ that the automotive engineers and car companies of the world can do is apparently not quite double that?! As far as their NOT being a concerted effort to cover up energy breakthroughs in the energy field, I will let you judge that for yourself. Here is a link that lists quite a few news releases over the years detailing energy breakthroughs. Unfortunately,, at least here in America, we find ourselves paying ever higher costs for gas. I know we don’t pay as much as other regions of the world. Here’s the link so be the judge yourself. Personally, I’m sick and tired of the monstrously large amount of BS that the automotive industry has created, assuring us that the current mpg rating is “the best they can do”. Please!! Here’s the link so check it out for yourself: http://wanttoknow.info/newenergynewsarticles

    • Liked to read your post on free energy ect.
      However one thing I have found is that the Internet is full of 1% maybe true 99% BS
      Also UFO free energy ect information usually when you look into it comes down to …you can read all about it in my new book costing $$$$££££ conflict of interests therefore cannot be trusted.
      There are many viable solutions but money rules therefore don’t hold your breath.

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  61. There are many viable technologies that could replace oil solar power if properly invested in is one.
    plasma arc tech another .thorium another.
    I could write a long rambling letter on solutions but the one thing you can rely on is that come up with a green idea that is a cash cow like oil and your onto a winner .
    The power in the world is cash not ideas.the rich like to be and stay rich that is unlikely to change.

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