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“Doomsday Preppers” Casting Call and SilverSaver Discusses Investments In Silver and People with Eric Fischbach and Doug Tjaden – Episode 161

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Doug TjadenHost Bill Heid gets the inside track on the upcoming Doomsday Expo from Eric Fischbach, the chief operating officer of the Doomsday Expo. The Doomsday Expo offers some outstanding opportunities for survivalist and emergency preparedness aficionados, including a casting call for the next season of National Geographic’s Doomsday Preppers and a dynamite crew of speakers including Jay Blevins, Rick Austin, Survivor Jane, and Dr. Joel Wallach.

As Fischbach wraps up and includes information about the Doomsday Expo, Heid is joined by former guest, Doug Tjaden. Tjaden has joined the show several times in the past, shedding his knowledge and insight to the silver market along with simple and affordable ways to invest in silver.

Tjaden joins us this time to talk about the importance of having and maintaining a belief system in the face of disaster. He talks about a new project he has recently started which is dedicated to help you live as God intended – free to seek and love Him with everything in your heart, mind, and soul. As the show comes to a close, Tjaden talks about new system which can help make the investment in silver a simple and automated process including a program that employers can set up for employees.

Off The Grid Radio
Released: June 13, 2013

Bill:      And welcome to Off the Grid Radio. I am Bill Heid. I am your host and our guest today is Eric Fischbach. And Eric is the chief executive officer of the Doomsday Expo event that’s going to be taking place in Denver in, what 27 days, 22 hours and 56 minutes. Eric, welcome.

Eric:     Thank you, Bill. It’s a pleasure.  

Bill:      Great to have you with us today and I want to chat a little bit about, this is a pretty big event. When did the event first—the thinking for the event first start?

Eric:     Well, the event really came up to help support some other things we were working on. We do another event where we work with police, fire, EMS and military departments and we help them with their funding and their grand education and then there grew some interest from those departments and they actually do their own prepping for natural disasters within their communities. And there was an interest in learning more about products that were available to them and to prepare to assist their communities in the insight that a natural disaster would happen. And after we started doing some research and talking with people we started to realize that a lot of the prepping shows out there were disguised as gun shows but there was no real focus on families and prepping and things of that nature. So this is where the show kind of came from.

Bill:      That’s very exciting and this year you’ve also got in addition to all the speakers, and we’ll talk about some of the speakers in a little bit. But we’ll also—I’m curious, you’ve got a casting call of sorts for the actual NatGeo show Doomsday Preppers. Is that correct?

Eric:     Yes. We’re excited to have them. They’re going to be doing a casting for their fourth season. And this year they’re taking a little bit different direction. They’re actually looking for engineers and people that can build things from the ground up. So it’s exciting to see what type of people they’re going to have and what type of products are going to be displayed on the show. So people will be able to attend the show. They can also go on our website and fill out the application for their product and what they would like to showcase on the show and they can also meet with the casting director at the event and speak with them in person to make that lasting impression.

Bill:      Yeah, right there you can just go up and actually get a chance to talk to the people involved in it and if maybe you’ve got a story that’s unusual or a different take, it’ll take quite an unusual story because there’s been so many episodes that have been on that have been great episodes. So you’ll probably have to have an unusual story. But that’s really a pretty cool thing to have something like that. And will that be something that—I mean, they actually have a booth there, Eric?

Eric:     Absolutely. We’ll have a booth there located near our main stage of speakers and we’re going to be having them invited and taking them with us to all the events we’re going to be doing across the United States. And they’re going to be trying to find different engineers and people, you know, in different areas of the United States and what they’re doing to prepare their families in natural disasters and things like that.

Bill:      So how are you getting the word out other than just interviews like this? How are you getting the word out? You are billing this as one of the bigger events, if not the biggest event of this type taking place in the United States. How’s the word getting out about it?

Eric:     Well, you know, the show really took on a life of its own. I think what’s really getting the buzz going is the way we’re approaching this. We don’t want to have a gimmick show and we’re not a company just trying to jump on the trend. What we’re really trying to do is focus on that prepping is not just for someone that thinks the apocalypse is coming. It’s really focused on families and short-term natural disasters, whether you live in Tornado Alley or you live in an area that has a hurricane season. You know, what are you going to do for those three or four days that it takes help to arrive? What can you do to take care of your family? So that’s really what I think is growing the interest. Doomsday really grabs the attention and then our goal is to get the people there and show them that even if you store a case of water and have a first aid kit in your car for a long trip with your family, you are a prepper. We’re trying really to dispel that stereotype that the people that are preppers are on the extreme side, but that everybody should be preparing no matter what the reason. The important thing is that you have a plan in place to care for your family if something were to happen.

Bill:      We just had Jay Blevins on our show and he’s going to be one of your speakers. Now he’s a great guy to have because he’s an ordinary fellow though, done some extraordinary things, but I think he best typifies, Eric, the kind of just what you can expect of the people that are going to be there. He’s an ordinary fellow.

Eric:     Absolutely. Jay has been great. The one thing about these speakers and the people that we’re meeting through this show that I think a lot of people, a lot of the public don’t realize is that the people that are within the prepper networks, they’re really out to help each other build their networks and take care of each other. They’re not loners, as some people may think, that are just out in the middle of nowhere. They really do have networks and families and people that they work with and they’re willing to basically give their shirt off their back to help anybody in need. And that’s what we’re trying to get the word out. We’re also trying to reach the female audience. So we have Nicole Sundine and Survivor Jane that’ll be presenting the woman’s perspective on self-defense and prepping for their family. And we think that’s going to be a great opportunity for the wives, mothers, and daughters to come out and get a female’s perspective on what they can do to take care of their family.

Bill:      Another one of our guests, as of late, is Rick Austin. He’s going to be there. He’s a great speaker and he’s got a lot to say about how to kind of camouflage your garden a little bit. He’s been around. So I’m looking forward to him being there as well.

Eric:     Absolutely. Rick’s been a great promoter of our event as well; getting the word out to people and letting them know what our vision and goal is and we’re really excited to see his presentation at the event. I think that the great thing about all of our speakers is they’re not just someone that has a tag name for the trend, like I said, but they all have real-life experience that they can bring to their presentations. So we’re looking forward to all the presentations.

Bill:      Yeah. Another one whose name kind of popped for me was—I remember years ago the Dead Doctors Don’t Lie—was it a book, I think, or a course or an audio that was with Dr. Joel Wallach. Certainly he’s been a pioneer in sort of off the grid nutrition so having him there is kind of a big deal as well.

Eric:     Absolutely. Yeah, Genesis Communication Networks is bringing him along and we’re looking forward to his presentation as well. We’re really trying to cover as many aspects of preparing as we possibly can. So whether you’re a beginning prepper or you’ve been doing it for 20 years, we want to make sure that everyone leaves the show with something; some sort of new product, new information, something that they can put into their current or future plans and have every tool that they need to make sure their family’s taken care of. Whether it’s for that short term natural disaster or if it’s for something unfortunate that would be more long term.

Bill:      And you are hooked up with Genesis Communications. We’re good friends with those folks. How did that all get started?

Eric:     Well we were actually contacted by Nick Cordina (sp) from the Alex Jones Network for a show and they were very interested in the event and what we were doing and they wanted to be involved. So they’re one of our media partners that are helping us promote. We have a commercial running throughout their radio stations, as well, promoting the show. And we’re looking forward to working with them on many different events. So we’re excited about that as well.

Bill:      Very cool. How many vendors do you think will be there? I know it’s probably a lot of people are signing up to be vendors right now. There’s probably food suppliers and just everything under the roof. But what do you have for vendors so far?

Eric:     Well, we’re looking at having a total of 180 vendors for this first event. We have everything from dry food vendors up to underground bunkers. So it’s a very wide range. We also have a lot of things not only just for preppers but for the outdoor enthusiast as well because they kind of fall in line with that, you know. Being in Colorado we’re also going to have a draw of a lot of campers, fishermen, you know, hikers that can also utilize these products. And there may even be products out there that they don’t even realize that they could utilize for their camping trips, their hiking trips and things like that.

Bill:      So this event, again, is what date? Go through the dates; June 27 – June 29?

Eric:     Correct. Yep, that’s at Colorado Convention Center in Denver and then our second show is slated for December 19th through the 21st at the Colorado Convention Center as well. And then starting next year, probably April, we’ll be doing an 11 city tour across the United States.

Bill:      And for people that want to sign up as vendors, you’ve got a special place on your website. Do you want to tell our listeners where they can go to actually get more information about the show? But also there’s a lot of other companies; we have people, friends of ours, that sell other things that listen to this show. So how can they get involved; maybe not—if it’s a little late for them logistically this year, maybe the December tour or the 2014 tour.

Eric:     Absolutely. They can go to and they’ll see a link where they can go to the exhibit or booth selection and registration. Right now we have the June map and live floor plan available. The December one will be coming in the next couple of weeks. Every map and schedule will be updated on the site, so if they sign up for the newsletter and continue to view the site for updates they’ll be able to know when the next show is and how they can register.

Bill:      What’s it cost to get in for the public?

Eric:     For the public it’s $10 a day or $14 for the three day event and that includes a closing concert on the last evening of the event.

Bill:      Oh well talk about that a little bit. What’s going to be—what music do you have planned?

Eric:     For this first event we have a local band call The Groove Hogs. They are local radio personalities, Lewis and Floorwax, from 103.5 The Fox and they’ll be our first presenters. And then we have a lot of other ones slated. You know, we’re trying to work with every city we go to, local bands and local companies to help their local communities.

Bill:      Very Cool. Anything else that you want to tell us about the expo or your plans or any other events?

Eric:     You know, we’re excited. We also have another event coming up called Everyday Heroes; that’s going to be working with the police, fire, EMS and military departments. So a lot of the vendors that work with our Doomsday can also work with those first responder communities as well, you know help them make sure they have the products they need to continually protect the public every day. So if they’re interested in that they can go to And that’s really what Doomsday is in support of, is to help our first responders and also some of the school safety initiatives and demonstrations we’ll be doing as well.   

Bill:      All right, Eric, thanks so much for being with us. And again, you can go to Remember it’s in the Denver, Colorado Convention Center June 27th through the 29th this year, so make your plans ahead of time. And, Eric, thanks again for joining us.

Eric:     Bill, thank you. It’s been a pleasure and we look forward to speaking with you guys again in the future.

Bill:      Perhaps we’ll see you there. Thanks again.

Eric:     Thank you. Take care

Bill:      Yep. We’ll be right back. We are back with, in fact, better ideas for off the grid living. We’ve got our guest for this segment is Doug Tjaden from over at Silver Saver. Doug, thanks so much for joining us.

Doug:   It’s great to be here again. Thanks, Bill

Bill:      You know since we originally did an interview with you, and I remember—was it two years ago?

Doug:   It would’ve been two years ago. Yeah

Bill:      Yeah. And so many of our listeners actually came over and signed up for Silver Saver that I think it astounded both of us that people were looking for something, and probably just that low cost, “Hey I can start with 50 bucks and do it every month.” And the trust idea, “Hey you can come and get it anytime you want.” That whole thing, I think, really blew people out of the water. And what I wanted to do today was talk a little bit about the big takedown, the big Wall Street takedown of gold, the big Fed takedown of gold and how people—because of dollar cost averaging how—as I was saying to you earlier, Doug, I’m a buyer of silver. I’m not a seller. So when I see the price drop I don’t get depressed and say “Well I guess that’s the end of that investment” because I know the nature of what’s going on in this country. To me it just looks like “Hey this is a great opportunity that’s been provided, kind of like a blessing. This is a great opportunity that’s been provided.” And so many pushed the price back down, Doug, we’ve got some opportunities here.

Doug:   Yeah, anytime something is on sale and you’re accumulating it it’s a good thing. I have actually, Bill, over the last probably year ceased my continual monitoring of the markets and the precious metals market. I used to watch them on an intraday basis and watch almost every tick and it got to be a little bit crazy, and even the other markets as well. The reason I’ve done that is because they’re all managed. They’re unpredictable. We really don’t know any longer exactly where they’re going, which direction and what the duration of some of these spikes will be like we’re seeing in the Dow right now and some of the dips we’re seeing in the precious metals. Before 2008 we could look at things like interest rates and the trade deficit to determine where the US dollar was headed, whether it was going up and down. Well when’s the last time you heard or read about the announcement of the trade deficit numbers?

Bill:      Yeah, it seems like—you know whatever is handy is what’s being presented and you don’t hear much talk about…

Doug:   No.

Bill:      …trade deficits.

Doug:   Because those fundamental drivers of the economy, those fundamental economic variables that used to drive the markets right now, at least in this period of history, they don’t matter. The entire global markets are under a lockdown right now and they’re being managed. I don’t know how long that’s going to last but it won’t last forever.

Bill:      Well hey, let me interrupt you. Historically, Doug, have markets ever been managed in an infinite—and I mean people get weary, right? We know that about investments that there is such a thing as sort of fatigue when it comes to something. But let’s look at a different kind of fatigue. Has a nation ever spent more money or—well it could be an individual, it could be a nation, it could be a company, it could be anything, an organization, spent more money than they take in for an infinite period?

Doug:   Well no. It’s never happened successfully and it never will.

Bill:      So it’s a good bet, right?

Doug:   Right, right. So over the long term we know what’s going to happen. The thing that’s unique about this period in history is because of technology the ability for folks to manage these markets through high frequency trading, through front running of information, all of the global nature of the markets make it a situation where it’s a little bit easier for them, believe it or not even because it’s a global market, for them to kind of cajole and get in concert with all these other global central banks to coordinate these management efforts. But you cannot, you cannot manage against the primary fundamental trends forever because it causes you to do things like you just spoke of. They’re trying to manage against the fundamental trend which should be a big reset or a repudiation of that. Well, they’re doing everything they can to keep that from happening. So eventually that’s going to blow up in their face. We just don’t know exactly when that’s happening.

We look at Japan now and what’s going on over there. The bond vigilantes are beginning to wake up. And the interesting thing is when they wake up, they’re looking at Japan now and rates are starting to spike over there, we’ve seen a spike in the rates here in the United States. And, Bill, I think you know that the end game in this thing is interest rates rising will blow up this entire financial system that’s based on debt and they can’t have it. So the question is, how much longer can the central banks beat back the bond vigilantes? And I don’t know the answer to that question. I just know it will not, again, it won’t last forever. They won’t be able to do it forever.

Bill:      I don’t think our country is big enough to manage global interest rates forever and I think that’s a safe bet, too. Now I thought it happen; I must confess though, I thought it would happen before now that rates would start to rise. But I think in some places you’re seeing small rises already and I think where this ends…you and I are old enough to remember the last time this happened it ended at about 18%, if I remember it. It might’ve been just a little bit less than that. But Volcker had to come—he had to come in and do some really drastic things because during the latter portion of the Carter administration looked very, very similar to the way things look now. In other words, you had this free policy and money was sloshing around everywhere but that ended. And we all remember it. I remember like it was yesterday and the same thing’s going to happen, only this time…and again this is not investment advice but I’m just speculating for my own purposes. The last time gold ended up, you know, that it—during that period…I think, Doug, was it in the 800s?

Doug:   Yes.

Bill:      Is where it ended up? And I think a guy—I’m thinking a guy could add a zero to that. There’s all kinds of speculators that say “Hey this is going to happen” or “That’s going to happen.” But I think your point about the economy not being prepared for—I mean what would 15% interest rates look like in today’s world where the only way you can sell houses and cars is to force—you know those are the two supposedly or ostensible growth areas in our economy and of course you’re getting them because you’re getting zero—you’re offering people zero rates basically; rates that aren’t market rates.

Doug:   Well exactly and I don’t think we will see rates get to 15% again, Bill. I don’t think they’ll get there before the economy will completely and totally implode. So my premise is that when rates begin to rise and they get around that 6, 7, 8% range, we’re going to go into a period of extreme volatility. And the answer by the global central bankers is going to be “Hey we need to consolidate this whole currency system at either a regional or a global level.” And they’re working on that and they’ve been very open about talking about these plans for years. And so when we get into that capitulation phase when things get really, really chaotic, that will be their answer. They’ll hold this out and say “Here’s what we have to do to save this.” The problem with that is it undermines, any consolidation of currencies will undermine national sovereignty. You’re seeing that happen right now in Europe. Every European country is losing their ability to govern themselves because of their currency crisis and because of the Euro. We don’t want that here but it’s going to be offered.

Bill:      Yeah and it is amazing, as you said, that this is being—in the old days it wouldn’t be talked about as much. In other words, conversations about banking and Bilderbergers and others was sort of confined to the John Birch society in the late 70s and if you brought that up you were considered to be really more than a right wing nut. You were—people were ready to put you away for even bringing that up. Now it’s kind of common talk about what bankers are doing, even so much, Doug, that I think that in a sense they’re kind of doing it themselves. And they’re flouting a little bit their control and I think you and I both on the spiritual side of this kind of see a kind of a haughtiness as something that God maybe not smile at anymore.

Doug:   Well, one of the things that we can take some comfort in is that evil tends to overplay its hand and that’s what we’re starting to see now, I believe. It’s the beginning of the exposure of the depth of the evil. I think it’s going to allow people to look at it and see it for what it is, the control, the manipulation, all the scandals we’re seeing erupt not just in the White House, which there are plenty there, but across the nation and governorships. We’ve got some of our own scandals here in Missouri going on with our governor. And I think that’s God’s way of really pulling back the veil a little bit and saying “Okay, Christian community. Okay, Church. What are you going to do about this?” And it’s incumbent upon us to jump into the game right now and say “Hey we’re going to do something about it. If we don’t then judgment begins in the house of the Lord and we’re going to see some chastisement there.” So we’ve got some opportunities in front of us but we have to take advantage of them and what God’s doing to expose them so that we can rise up and do something about it.

Bill:      And I think it’s important, Doug, to know that we can win. In other words, there’s a kind of a philosophy that exists in a lot, sort of a lot of theological circles, that sort of says “Hey we can’t win this battle.” One thing we know in history is that it’s not a numbers game. In other words, the communists took over with just a couple percent and a dedicated minority is kind of usually where the action is. And so to reverse Edmund Burke’s concept or comment about all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing, and I think if we just flip that around and then say “Good wins when just a handful of people do the right thing.” I think we’re in an area right now where that’s such an exciting possibility. And I know if you look—if you do newspaper exegesis and every day you’re looking at the newspapers to try to say, you know, what God is doing, I think you have to be careful. I would call that—you know, we used to in the old days call that sort of walking by sight. And I think something different know that we have the victory in this case, Doug. I think that’s really important to maintain that sort of sense. That’s why when we talk about self-reliance on this show all the time, we’re always talking about the faith side of it. The spiritual side is pretty important because if you’re just going to be something other than a guy that wants to take, take, take and be a plunderer in a time of hardship then you have to think “Okay, what is the spiritual backdrop that I’m operating in?” To me that’s more important—having that as a self-reliance concept is more important than having all the freeze dried food in the world.

Doug:   Well you’re absolutely right, Bill. Because if God’s not leading this, if he’s not leading us through this valley that we’re walking through, you know through the valley of the shadow of death as it sometimes appears, if he’s not leading that then we are walking by our own strength. And that’s not a good position to be in at all because when things really start to get sideways here, if we don’t have our spiritual house in order, if we’re not free in our understanding of who we are in Christ and the empowerment that the Holy Spirit gives us to withstand and to have discernment during these times, we’ll get our head handed to us. And so it’s very important that we understand where we’re at and where our strength comes from and where—frankly where our guidance is going to come from over the next few years as we go through this.

Bill:      And if you look—exactly. If you look a little bit at God’s nature and we can kind of see by looking at the Old Testament especially, what God’s nature is. In other words, who is this entity that we’re talking about that’s capable of doing—we’re talking about market manipulation. I mean you’re talking about a God that’s—can do the potential, the ultimate slap down and the Jews of old were the recipients of that numerous times and it was never very funny or friendly or nice. It was, Doug, pretty rough on those people that got haughty during that period of time.

Doug:   Well it was. And I think the pattern that you’re speaking of, especially as we look at the book of Judges where you see that happen over and over again. You saw a nation that was prosperous. You saw them fall into idolatry, which in itself is a form of spiritual bondage. That spiritual bondage preceded their physical and their civil bondage and then they turned around repented, relented, cried out for God, they became spiritually free again and then their civil liberties were restores. And that’s a very similar pattern to what we’re seeing happen right now. This nation is in the depths of spiritual bondage like it has not been since its inception. That’s my view. And that is leading us right now into what could be a literal civil bondage unless we shake off those chains that we’re carrying right now and begin to turn that around and seek the Lord again.

Bill:      Well and, Doug, you’ve never been someone to sort of sit around passively and watch this—watch these things take place. And I know you’re always thinking about “What can I do to make a difference?” Tell us a little bit about—you’re up to something new. So tell us a little bit about this concept of liberty. Where does liberty come from? What are you doing? You’ve got a new website I’d love to talk to you about. Let’s talk about what liberty is and what Christian liberty is.

Doug:   Well, as I’ve travelled around the country and around our state and gotten involved with various patriot groups, tea party groups, you know just good Christian folks who want to love the Lord and live free, I’ve seen that it seems as though God is working in this area of liberty and kind of waking people up and helping them understand how important it is, how much of just a precious gift liberty is to us. And what I’m also seeing is there’s a little bit of confusion and co-mingling within the Christian community in particular in what our civil liberties are versus what our liberty in Christ is and what that means.

And so we’re working on launching a ministry here very shortly where we’re putting a lot of effort into this; there’s going to be a ton of content that we are going to be churning out over the next few weeks and months. And it’s called Project 513 and that’s based on Galatians 5:13 that says “We are called to liberty, brethren. Only do not use your liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.” And we’re trying to re-orient and help folks just figure out “Okay, why is it that either myself or my family are not getting involved in this struggle for liberty that we’re in in this nation right now? What’s happening?” And the premise there is that there is this spiritual bondage that is kind of hanging over much of the Christian community and this nation as a whole. Once we identify that, say “Okay it’s there” then we can ask the question “What is it personally? What is holding me back? How can I be set free from these chains so that I can go out there and do what I need to do to serve the Lord, number one, and number two, to stand against the tyranny that’s coming?” And that’s the premise of the project and we’re very, very excited about what’s coming and we’ve had some initial responses as to the—some of the things we’re putting out. And, like I said, we’re very excited about what’s happening there.

Bill:      Well that’s very cool. And I think—what I run into a lot as well, maybe we can have just a little bit of discussion, is when folks think of liberty and I think especially true in the Libertarian movement of which we have some listeners, but I think where the caution sign has to go up a little is what does liberty mean. If you’re free, does that mean you’re free to do anything you’d like to do? So, and I think the people that are—what creates a problem, Doug, is if they say “Look, the essence of evil is totalitarianism and it’s big government tyranny, big corporate tyranny, whatever, so the opposite of that must mean that I could do anything that I want anytime that I want.” And I think—let’s talk about that again just for a few minutes because I think this is where we’ve got to really be careful about letting that pendulum swing back away from tyranny and saying that I can do whatever it is that I want, anytime I want.

Doug:   Well I usually put that in the context of just if you’re a parent you understand that you give your children healthy boundaries. They have to—we all have to have boundaries because our nature otherwise is to go out and we’ll conduct varied self-destructive behavior if we’re left without any boundaries whatsoever. So we—where do we get those boundaries? That’s the question we have to ask. What world view is going to determine where those boundaries are set? And frankly that is one of the main struggles that we’re having in this country right now. Which world view is going to dominate? Is it going to be a progressive, secular humanist, Atheistic world view that determines which boundaries we have, which are constantly changing, never consistent and frankly way out there or are we going to have the healthy boundaries that are set up by a Judeo Christian world view which have guided this country for the first 150 to 200 years pretty well? We’ve split since then. So we need to ask that question and understand that healthy boundaries are good. They are there for a reason and that is to protect us and to keep us focused on what we need to be focused on in our lives.

Bill:      Well said, Doug. And I think just for—maybe you can chime in as well, but just as kind of a little bit of an apologetic. If you’re interested in talking to your Libertarian friends or if you’re interested in talking to your Atheist friends, of which I have a lot of. I think the question that I always bring up that’s kind of fun, that’s just basically does what you said, the basic question to ask them is “Does anything go?” Right? Because if you say, Doug, you’re an Atheist and I say to you “All right, Doug. Does anything go?” And right away you’re going to—something’s going to come to your head and you’re going to have some boundaries in your head because most intellectuals that are, or even street folks, they’re going to say “Well I don’t want you to kill my children.” You know, or whatever it might be. They’re going to have some things they like. Whether they admit to it or not, they’re going to sort of have ultimacies in their life, things they posset with a great degree of trust that they say “I want to protect this.” But once they say it, Doug, once they impose the standard then the next question is naturally “Well why do you say that?” You know, as you just said “What substantiates your system? What authorizes your system? Is it just you that says ‘well I don’t think you should hurt me’?” And then I say—if I’m another Atheist I just say “Well so what. I’m glad that you have an opinion that you’re—you know you don’t want me to hurt you, but I do want to hurt you.”

Doug:   Yeah, there are—it’s interesting to get into discussions and debates, if you will, with folks who do not carry a solid world view that’s based on consistent principles, who are just kind of floating through the life right now and buying into some of this progressive, secular humanist junk that’s going on out there. And if you begin to probe that—as you said if you begin to ask questions you’ll find and they will find very quickly that their logical inconsistencies and logical fallacies in their thinking and in their argument in terms of “Well I can define this.” You know, it’s one of the old—one of the main things that you catch out them occasionally when you begin these debates is they’ll state an absolute and then tell you that there are no absolutes. And right there they’ve trapped themselves in a logical fallacy. And so it’s—it is an interesting proposition to talk to folks on that and it sometimes can be very frustrating because you and I both know that consistency and having a solid world view that can have a formulation that you can move forward on and be assured of is where we find our security. And yet a lot of these folks really struggle with that and they get very defensive when moved into a position to where that is being exposed to them.

Bill:      And I think it’s also important to say, Doug, to our listeners that may want to engage their friends and family that maybe have a perspective like that “Look, you’re not the Holy Spirit.” So it’s incumbent upon you to ask questions, to make your friends and family think, but I think once you get past that to just spend all of your time a day frustrated with the fact that Friend X doesn’t get it, I think God doesn’t ask you to do that. He just asks you to sort of present your more foundational world view up against that slippery slope world view and just patiently and graciously ask a few good questions and then you’re done. Let the Holy Spirit work on that person and just—as Stonewall Jackson always said—I bring this up on every show, Doug, but Stonewall Jackson’s theology is my own and it’s probably the best I’ve ever heard. “Duty is ours, consequences are God’s.” So it’s not your place to really convince that guy, but it’s your place to present your challenge to him.

Doug:   Plant the seeds—and you’re absolutely right. Plant seeds and let the Holy Spirit do the work. And I think one of the problems we have today is that we don’t do that in love. And so we don’t present the love equation of what it means to be a Christian and then, you know, it starts to look a little hypocritical and folks will jump all over hypocrisy, the leaven of the Pharisees.

Bill:      Even though they shouldn’t though, Doug. Because if you’re an Atheist, why I shouldn’t be a hypocrite? I can be anything I want to.

Doug:   Well, you’re correct. And that’s where you get into the whole logical inconsistencies of what they say. You can’t be a hypocrite but I can be. However, you know as we see in scripture Jesus dealt pretty harshly with the hypocrites and the Pharisees because it is. It undermines the witness that we’re called to present in who we are in Christ.

Bill:      Yeah, and I think if you get to the point where you sort of say “Look, I’m Bill Heid” or “I’m Doug Jane and I’ve got this over my Atheist friend and I’ve done something in time and space that my friend hasn’t so I’ve earned this grace.” Do you hear this language, Doug? “I’ve earned the place.” So the Apostle Paul really got down on people boasting. So when you do that, your point about love was pretty good because what would separate you from somebody that doesn’t get it, as it were? God’s grace and God’s grace alone; that’s what the reformation was all about, that’s where that big fight was fought and I think it’s a pretty good place to stake your flag today.

Doug:   Amen. I’ll just say amen to that.

Bill:      Yeah, well people have to go through this and I can’t imagine if someone is a Christian and they’re listening, that they don’t have encounters with friends and that they don’t have this because you can’t just sort of pietistically go away and meditate like a medieval monk and pretend like none of this is happening. We are headed on a highway to hell, to use the AC/DC album and song name. We’re on a road to a real debacle. And if we’re not engaging at a small level among our family and friends and just at least posseting what truth is, then I don’t we’re playing the game. I don’t think we’re part of running any kind of race at all, let alone running a good one, Doug.

Doug:   Well and it’s interesting that you bring up that scripture because that’s one of the things that we camped on at the project, and that is helping you run that race; helping you to become free to run that race. Because there’s a reason that folks do not engage even their family members with issues of faith. They don’t engage people in the workplace. And there’s been this whole blanket of intimidation that’s been thrown over the Christian community through a lot of the laws that are in place and a lot of regulations that are put in place in the workplace and so on. We have to begin to overcome that. We really do. And in order to stand against that with boldness, with confidence, we’ve got to throw off any fear that we have. We have to throw off anything in our past where the enemy can come in and condemn us and lie to us and tell us that we’re not able to—we’re not equipped to be able to carry this message. I mean all those things are a part of why the Christian community is not engaged in the marketplace of ideas today. And the entire premise of the project is to say “Okay, we understand it. Let’s identify those, let’s help you identify those in yourself, let’s help you break free from that and let’s give you some guidelines and encouragement in how to re-engage this culture in a very meaningful way and to do it with longevity.” Not just have little flame up here where we go “Okay, I’m going to go talk to my brother about something that I haven’t for five years.” But to really have it be a paradigm shift in your thinking about what your life as a Christian is about and the liberty that you have to take any message of faith to any place in this nation and to do it with boldness and confidence.

Bill:      And I think what you’ve said is really spot on because you’ve really got to say—if you are in fact a Christian and you label yourself as that, you’ve got to say at some point in your life what Schaeffer said, “How then should we live” or “What does God require of me?” If you’re not saying “What does God require of me” then I think you’re basically worshipping yourself. It’d be better off to look in the mirror and say “Well, Self, you’re looking pretty good today. What do you want me to do?” In which case you’re always going to be kind of doing something wacky if that’s the case.

Doug:   Well especially at this point in history, Bill. We’re looking around this and we’re seeing our culture, we’re seeing our nation, we’re seeing our world just implode. And as Christians, if we’re sitting back and saying “Okay, we’re waiting for Jesus to return and it’s going to get worse and that’s just the way it is”, we are not doing what God’s called us to do. Paul rebuked that very specifically in First and Second Thessalonians, that attitude of just sitting around and waiting. We are to be engaged. Redeem the time for the days are evil, and that’s where we’re at today. So there are period of time in history certainly where we’ve had it kind of easy in this country; nobody would argue that. But now is a time where the Christian community has to step up. We must stand up, put on our full armor of God and get into the battle or the country, the type of government, the monetary system, the economy that we hand off to our children and grandchildren is going to be one that we do not even want to think about but we have to today. And that’s what needs to move us to action.

Bill:      There won’t be need for weeping. We don’t have to go down that road where we all end up on our knees weeping, you know, in sort of Jeremiah terms. We can still win this war but it starts with individuals and families and then the implications of their faith, if strong enough, work themselves out into the community and so forth. So, Doug, I appreciate you, what you’re doing with Project 13. That’s at You want to make a little bit of an offer for people that want to, some of our listeners that want to go over there and check it out? You mentioned to me before the show that you’d like to…

Doug:   Sure. Yeah, it’s actually Project 513. That’s for Galatians 5:13. It’s And any of your listeners that want to go over there, we have a subscribe area and the first 20 people who subscribe I will them a hard copy, a free hard copy, of my book Fools Gold; which I just rewrote in the third addition, updated it to talk about how this new monetary system is going to destroy our national sovereignty if we allow it to come into existence. And the site is—the ministry is going to talk about liberty and all of its flavors, spiritual and our civil liberties as well.

Bill:      What’s the normal cost of Fools Gold?

Doug:   Fools Gold is normally $15.

Bill:      So $15, folks, go on over and check it out. And then just sum up—because there’s a lot of people listening that weren’t listening early one, sum up Silver Saver again for us. Take a couple of minutes just to talk about what it is, why it’s beneficial, talk about dollar cost averaging and tell that story because it’s still a great story. You guys have really, your success has rocketed because of this project that you did.

Doug:   Yeah it is. It’s a very unique space in the precious metals market. What we’ve done is we’ve automated the process of purchasing and cost averaging in the precious metals. You don’t have to go down to your coin shop, you don’t have to get online at a website once a month. You just set it and forget it. It can be anywhere from $50 a month to if you want to do $100 a day you could. And your dollar cost averages you, we purchased the gold and/or silver for you, we store it in a depository in Delaware. It’s a non-bank depository. You can take delivery if you want to at any time. And the process is automatic. It’s set it and forget it. If you’re comfortable and understand the market, where our monetary system’s heading and you want to allocate a portion of your monthly income stream and set it aside in this asset that is insurance, it’s a great way to do it. And we also have—if any of you out there happen to be employers, we have a new PMA, Precious Metals Account, where you can offer it as a voluntary payroll deduct for your employees. So we’re making it as automated as we can.

Bill:      And the great thing about dollar cost averaging, when silver is expensive you’re buying less of it. When silver is being manipulated, like it is right now, you’re buying more of it automatically as you said. You set it up and forget it.

Doug:   That’s exactly right. And you’ve got a link on your site to We’d invite your listeners to go on over and check it out.

Bill:      Very good, Doug. Well anything else you want to say to kind of sum up our conversation or anything else you want to bring to the listeners’ attention?

Doug:   Well, I always come back to we are in an exciting period in history. I mean, it seems like there’s a lot of daunting things out there. But, you know what, we were created in God’s image and God is a worrier. He is a—He is someone who is constantly fighting for truth and good and we get to carry that forward into this world, that right now so desperately needs the light of Jesus Christ. So we are—we’re living in an incredible time in history where it’s exciting to me, Bill. I couldn’t be more thankful to be able to be alive and be used by God during this time. And I think that we need to adopt that attitude as Christians, instead of looking at the future with fear, as you said earlier, looking at it with opportunity. There’s going to be opportunity off the charts in every form as we go through this very significant transitional period.

Bill:      Well said, Doug. And if you look at the early church compared to today, things are a lot better today than they were for the folks that were involved in the early church. No one’s—at least I didn’t walk past 300 crucified bodies on my way into work. Jeremy, did you walk past crucified bodies on your way to work? Nope. Things aren’t that bad. We can win this war. Doug, thanks so much for spending some time with us today. We know that your time is valuable and we also know that the time of our listeners is valuable and we thank you for spending it with us today at Off the Grid News.

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