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EPA Bans Most Wood-Burning Stoves

epa wood stove ban

Wood-burning stoves offer warmth and enhance off-grid living options during cold weather months, but the tried-and-true heating devices now are under attack by the Environmental Protection Agency.

The EPA has proposed banning the production and sale of the types of stoves used by about 80 percent of those with such stoves. The regulations limit the amount of “airborne fine-particle matter” to 12 micrograms per cubic meter of air. The current EPA regulations allow for 15 micrograms in the same amount of air space.

Most of the wood stoves currently nestled inside cabins and homes from coast-to-coast don’t meet the new environmental standard. The EPA launched a “Burn Wise” website to help convince the public that the new regulations were needed.

Trading in an old stove for a newer stove isn’t allowed.

“Replacing an older stove with a cleaner-burning stove will not improve air quality if the older stove is reused somewhere else,” the website says. “For this reason, wood stove change out programs usually require older stoves to be destroyed and recycled as scrap metal, or rendered inoperable.”

In some areas of the country, local governments have gone further than the EPA and banned not just the sale of such stoves, but the usage of old stoves – and even the usage of fireplaces. That means that even if you still have a stove or a fireplace, you can’t burn it for fear of a fine. Puget Sound, Washington, is one such location.

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Burn Wise is a partnership program associated with the EPA that is tasked with emphasizing the “importance of burning the right wood, the right way, in the right stove.” Information shared on the website operated by the federal government also states that both state and local agencies are pursuing ways to improve air quality that relate to wood-burning stoves.

The overall goal of the EPA Burn Wise program is to educate both local governmental agencies and citizens about the need for more “cleaner-burning” in the marketplace. Three of the most recent highlighted articles and webinars on the EPA Burn Wise website include details about a voluntary wood burning fireplace program, strategies for reducing residential wood some in state, tribal, and local communities, and a recording entitled, “Reducing Residential Wood Some: Is it Worth it?”

The EPA also has compiled a list of “approved” stoves.

According to a Washington Times review of the wood stove ban, the most dangerous aspect of the EPA proposed guidelines is the one-size-fits-all approach to the perceived problem. The same wood burning stove rules would apply to both heavily air-pollution laden major cities and far cleaner rural regions with extremely cooler temperatures. Families living in Alaska, or off the grid in wilderness area in the West, will most likely have extreme difficulty remaining in their cold, secluded homes if the EPA wood stove rules are approved.

The Times further said that wood burning stoves put less airborne fine-particle manner in the air than is present from secondhand some in a closed vehicle. When an individual smokes inside a car with the windows up, passengers are reportedly exposed to approximately 4,000 micrograms of soot per cubic meter.

Wrote the Times’ editorial board:

“Alaska’s 663,000 square miles is mostly forested, offering residents an abundant source of affordable firewood. When county officials floated a plan to regulate the burning of wood, residents were understandably inflamed. ‘Everybody wants clean air. We just have to make sure that we can also heat our homes,’ state Rep. Tammie Wilson told the Associated Press. Rather than fret over EPA’s computer-model-based warning about the dangers of inhaling soot from wood smoke, residents have more pressing concerns on their minds such as the immediate risk of freezing when the mercury plunges.”

Do you support the EPA’s wood stove ban?

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515 comments

  1. The government is completely out of control.

    • This is when the Grid Goes down as in an EMP Attack, False Flag etc, their will be a dollar Collapse etc

      • Nature intended us to breathe air with no more than 2 to 5 micrograms per cubic meter (ug/m3) of fine particle pollution, known as PM2.5 (particles less than 2.5 microns in diameter). PM2.5 particles are so tiny they behave like gases, seeping into houses, just like the air we need to sustain life, even when all doors and windows are shut.

        Because they are so small, PM2.5 penetrate the deepest recesses of lungs where they cause inflammation, and enter the bloodsream, transporting the inflammation and toxic chemicals throughout the body. That’s why air pollution, now listed as a class 1 human carcinogen, is also liked to bladder (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-24564446 ) as well as breast cancer. One study discovered a significant link between ood smoke exposure and cancer of the cervix.

        The EPA’s 12 ug/m3 meter applies to all sources of pollution – cars, trucks, power stations, industry. Wood stoves are NOT being singled out in any way. There is no safe levels of PM2.5 pollution – death rates increase with ever increase in PM2.5 levels from the lowest recorded values we know of.

        In Canada (where the median PM2.5 concentrations is 7.3 ug/m3) research by DL Crouse and colleagues showed an increase of 3 ug/m3 was associated with a 9% increase in deaths from ischemic heart disease and 3-4.5% increases in all deaths. In Quebec, woodsmoke accounts for 61% of PM2.5 emissions.

        A study in Vancouver measured woodsmoke in residential areas and divided them into the cleanest third (less than 6.8 ug/m3 in winter), intermediate (6.8 to 10 ug/m3) or smokiest (more than 10 ug/m3). The latter averaged 15% more chronic obstructive pulmonary disease than the cleanest third.

        Wood stoves are pretty dirty – using one for 10 hours produces more pollution than the average passenger car does in a year’s worth of driving. Cars used to be dirty too, but the EPA tightened the emissions standards so the manufacturers were force to make them cleaner. It’s a good argument for tightening the wood stove standards – some non-catalyst stoves are a lot cleaner than others, but the average buyer (like the average cigarette smoker of the 1940s) doesn’t understand the potential health problems of breathing woodsmoke!

        But who is going to object if your dirty stove is just for insurance against grid failure? It’s one thing to object to the increased risk from breathing the smoke from a device that causes more pollution in 10 hours than the average car does in a year, but completely another to do so when the grid fails! In that case, the neighborly thing would be invite your grid-reliant neighbors round for a cuppa or a meal!
        Some studies on the health effects of PM2.5 pollution.
        1. Crouse, D.L., et al., Risk of Non-accidental and Cardiovascular Mortality in Relation to Long-term Exposure to Low Concentrations of Fine Particulate Matter: A Canadian National-level Cohort Study. Environ Health Perspect, 2012.
        2. Lung Association of Quebec, Wood heating: a public health issue for the Montréal region. http://www.pq.lung.ca/environment-environnement/wood_smoke-fumee_bois/enjeu-montreal/. 2009.
        3. Gan, W.Q., et al., Associations of Ambient Air Pollution with Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease Hospitalization and Mortality. American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine, 2013. 187(7): p. 721-727.

        • OK, GREAT TECHNICAL INFO.
          HOW DID YOU FIND OUT JUST WHAT NATURE HAS ALLOCATED AS A MAX EXPOSURE? DID YOU ASK MOTHER???
          WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE SOONER OR LATER, SHALL I FREEZE IN THE WINTER AT ZERO DEGREES TO KEEP YOU LUNGS AND THE EPA HAPPY?I AM 75 WITH NO RESPRITORY PROBLEMS. I AM HOWEVER TYPE 2 DIABETIC, BLAME THE WOOD? THE ONLY OTHER THING I SUFFER FROM IS HYPERTENSION WHICH IS WELL UNDER CONTROL. I HAVE USED A WOOD STOVE AS PREVIOUSLY STATED ELSEWHERE HERE FOR 40 YEARS.
          THE BIGGEST PROBLEM I SEE IS BIG GOVERNMENT ENCROACHING INTO EVERY DAILY ASPECT OF OUR LIVES, AND THAT I DO NOT LIKE. F’K THEM AND ALL THEIR DO GOOD REGULATIONS.

          • But your neighbors don’t want to get the diseases that wood smoke has been proven to cause. So please consider others, other than just yourself.

            Whilst people remain ignorant or selfish that’s why we need prohibition on wood burning in residential neighborhoods.

          • ALL MY NEIGHBORS BURN WOOD ALSO. DO YOU WANT TO REGULATE MY TRANSFAT AND SUGAR INPUT ALSO? WHERE DOES IT END?? TOO MUCH REGULATION.

          • Your sugar and transfat doesn’t cross the property boundary. Your woodsmoke crosses the property boundary.

            So it ends at the property boundary.

            Sounds like you have some neighbors who don’t know anything about the danger of woodsmoke. As an elderly diabetic you are at risk of cardiovascular distress caused by chronic woodsmoke pollution. It could stroke and heart attack. You are also at a risk of cancers caused by woodsmoke. Please visit yourr physician and get checked out. It sounds like you are living in an unhealthy environment.

          • I HAVE A CHECKUP TWICE A YEAR AS REQUIRED BY MEDICARE, NO I DON’T HAVE ANY OF YOUR LISTED PROBLEMS. PERHAPS THOSE EMISSIONS CAUSED THE WORN DISC IN MY BACK.
            YOU NEED TO LOOK AT OTHER EMISSION SITES FOR YOUR CRUSADE, PERHAPS IN THE OLD EAST BLOCK OR ARGENTINA, MAYBE PERU. I WORKED ON BOILER EMISSIONS FOR REILY STOKER NOW BABCOX AND WILCOX, FOCUSING ON NOZZLE DESIGN AND ELECTROSTATIC PRECIPITATORS CUSTOMIZED FOR A SPECIFIC COAL FIELD OF BITUMINOUS, SUB BITUMINOUS OR LIGNITE WITH A HYDROCARB/WATER CARRIER FOR INJECTION ON TO A FLUIDIZED BED. THE NET PARTICULATE DOWN TO SUBMICRON EMISSIONS WERE ZERO, STEAM ONLY.
            THE CRAP YOU SHOULD WORRY ABOUT DOES NOT COME FROM A FEW WOOD STOVES.
            OF COURSE TALKING TO YOU LIKE ANY OTHER DO GOOD LIBBER IS A WASTE OF TIME. OF COURSE YOU ALSO PROMOTE THE GLOBAL WARMING CRAP TOO. YES CONTROL MY LIFE BECAUSE YOU ARE SMARTER AND KNOIW WHAT IS BEST FOR ME, JUST LIKE THE THING IN THE WHITEHOUSE

          • Such hostility.

            But Ragnar, people shouldn’t suffer from your ignorance.

          • RAGNAR: I AM HOWEVER TYPE 2 DIABETIC, BLAME THE WOOD?
            See http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/obeseair.htm “these fine particulates directly cause inflammation and changes in fat cells, both of which increase the risk for Type 2 diabetes”

            See also: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110705071735.htm Air Pollution Linked to Learning and Memory Problems, Depression.

            Many people know elderly people who chain smoked for years and still lived to be 90. We also know smokers who died of a heart attack in their 50s. The effects of PM2.5 pollution, like cigarette smoke affects some people more than others, but, like cigarette smoke, it’s something the ‘average’ person should try to avoid, at least until stove emissions are tested to a decent health-based standard.

            Like people addicted to tobacco, it isn’t always easy. If there are no affordable alternatives, you might be stuck with the pollution. But for most climates there are energy efficient alternatives that are healthier, cheaper and cause less global warming.

            If you hope to live to 90, it’s not too late to check out the alternatives. Good luck!

          • Ragnar, don’t worry it’s cool… You can just use the power generated by those solar and wind farms near you to heat your house. If the sun isn’t shining or the wind isn’t blowing then you can use that hydro power from the dams that we all live right next to.

            Coal, nuclear, and wood are the most evil things in the world and we need to protect you from them because you might die someday.

            This is sarcasm for the slow aka progressives among us.

          • Yeah and that makes you so bright, because you’ve just changed the physics, chemistry and epidemiology around particulate pollution.

            You can pretend the science isn’t real, but that doesn’t make you clever.

          • ragnar, i cant wait until your entire generation is gone

          • Ragnar, please stop shouting.

          • Ragnar – hates the Government, but loves his Medicare. Yeah.

            But, seriously, Ragnar, calm down. Nobody is taking your wood stove away. All will be taken care of when O’s shock troops come out to bulldoze your place and haul you off to a FEMA camp. ;-)

          • Of course we are all going to die. We just aren’t going to allow ‘offgrid’ citizens to hasten the deaths of OTHER citizens.

          • Need to approach this story with lotf skepticism. Wood is burned exclusively in most areas of the world and it is harmles. Buying an electric car or several computers is far more harmful to the envionment than burning wood for 30 years. Did you know that a single 1000. Acre forest fire put more soot in the atmosphere than all the woodstoves combined in the us for4 yrs? I’ll bet feinstein and shumer bought out a company that makes “EPA approved” woodstoves

          • you are so right around her most of us burn wood I have most my 63 years I heat an cook with it don’t hurt any one the epa is full it

          • Of all the pollution being spewed into the atmosphere, the least worry should fall on some Off-the-grid homesteader who wants to heat his/her home the way humans have heated their homes for the entire history of homes. This is another way for the “independent” people to be legislated into dependence on society. I don’t see the EPA focusing on the large corporations that are spilling toxins into the rivers and streams or the city car drivers that have blackened out the skies over most large cities. Rather, they want to regulate an area where only a few dozen families live in several miles. Those people have always burned wood and the air quality there is multiple times better than in the city. Basically what these bans do is force people to tie into the energy grid where millions of dollars are to be made from them.

        • Fuck you and your government.

          • Wow. Such hostility.

            It is important to have good policies that take into account scientific realities and moral principles, that also protect us from people who don’t understand the science and have no moral principles.

            A ban on wood burning is overdue.

          • MATTY T, YOU AND YOUR LIBTARDS NEED TO BE BANNED. YOU ARE THE IGNORANT FOLLOWER OF JUNK SCIENCE. I MORE THAN MOST ARE AWARE OF WHAT IS FLOATING AROUND IN THE AIR.
            YOU ARE A NARROW MINDED ASS GEEK WHO SITS AND PLAYS WITH STATS AND COMPUTER CHARTS. I WORKED IT THE FIELD. OBVIOUSLY YOU HAD NO CLUE DUE TO THE FACT THERE WAS NO REPLY ON THE COMPANIES MENTIONED. YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A LIBERAL SROLL, TROLL THIS A$$HOLE.

          • Ragnar. Looks to me like you’re a bit of a dickhead yourself.

            Fancy that. Someone who doesn’t like woodsmoke telling someone who makes woodsmoke that woodsmoke sucks.

            And you are ignorant of the science. Much as you claim you know about stuff, you know nothing.

            So please learn something, and fancy me telling a 77 year old this, but grow up.

          • A$$HOLE, AND I AM 75 NOT 77 JERK, I SAID YOU HAVE NO READING COMPREHENSION, OH WAIT THAT WAS TO THE SCOTT BUT IT APPLIES TO YOU TO A/HOLE TROLL.

          • How rude?

            Calling me an asshole, when I am not the one polluting my neighborhood, and causing people disease.

            Woodsmoke is assault.

            75, 77 who cares. With your chronic diseases and your unhealthy lifestyle and unhealthy environment you mightn’t make 77.

          • You have no idea how much the rest of us wish you’d go Galt already.

          • “Wow. Such hostility.”

            You’re goddamned right. Plenty more of it where that come, just waiting for you to step over the last possible line, too. Who the hell do you liberal busybodies think you are, anyway? Move to a socialist hellhole like Cuba already, and leave people who want to be free of your meddlesome intrusions alone.

          • Wow. Such moronic hostility.

            I don’t know why you think I’m a liberal.

            But the point of life isn’t trying to out stupid each other. It is about building a fair and just society for all where people aren’t excluded.

            You know what is a real meddlesome intrusion? Wood smoke. Unwanted wood smoke invading one’s property, one’s personal space and entering into one’s lungs.

            You people (I’ll politely call you rugged individualists rather than demented insularists) really have lost the plot.

            In protecting your own ill thought out “freedoms” you’ll deny freedom to everyone else, but a freedom isn’t freedom unless it’s enjoyed by one and all. (You’ll find that is a quote from the great political songwriter Billy Bragg.)

            Clean air for all.

          • I call you a liberal because no self-respecting conservative or libertarian would advocate for the kind of repression and tyranny you are; it’s self-evident. You’re doing the same thing Progressivists have always done: disingenuously declaring your desire to micromanage everyone else’s life based on junk science and fallacious bleats about “health,” “safety,” and “security,” for our own supposed good. You propose government by “expert” in exactly the same way that liberal-fascists always have. Call yourself whatever you like; more of us every day are realizing exactly what people like you are: the eternal, self-declared enemy of every individual who cares about liberty, self-determination, and Constitutional government.

            And you only think you’re seeing hostility now. Keep pushing us, and see how it all comes out. Your time is nearly up, and the time for some Jeffersonian tree-watering approaches. It’s to be dreaded, but not feared.

          • hey bait, which is what you are doing, I am on Medicare and I pay for it not like the freeloaders on Medicaid. I also paid for the ss I get too.
            If there is a revolt in this country a/holes like you will be floating down the river as fish bait.
            peters peter, why did you change your name to matty t?

          • You don’t pay for your ss check. You are on welfare Ragnar. That’s a government handout.

          • matty, I paid in plenty over my entire career into ss, what kind of uninformed a/hole are you. I am not on welfare and neither is my 401k, twit.
            I don’t try to interfere with others lives like you libtards do. stay the hell out of mine! why don’t you join the epa swat team and lead the stack into my place?

          • You paid for other people’s social security, and now other people are paying for yours.

            You’re on welfare.

          • matty t go fukin hug a tree or just crawl back in your hole the funny thing is you will probly die before anyone with a wood stove will just because u think you are so much better than everyone else next you will say our president is doing a good job to hahahaha both you and him are both …………………. dont need the hench man showin up if i say how i feel about him hahaha but again matt fuk off goin to kill some animals for food now guess thats bad to rite haha

        • CaresAboutHealth & MattyT- I almost never post to stories like this, because they are then to be so inflammatory, and it seems that people are either on the attack, trolling, or just being extremely hostile in one way or another (at the expense of actually trying to solve problems). I rarely get the impression that people are willing to change their minds, in the face of any kind of evidence in these kinds of conversations.

          That said, I was on the fence about the wood burning stoves story, leaning towards wondering why government had to stick their nose into something that didn’t seem too big a deal, and might just cause some of us more problems than we already have. After all, who doesn’t like sitting by a real wood fire – the warmth, sight and smell, and nostalgic feelings associated with them are unparalleled. And many of us rely on that heat source for economic reasons.

          However, your posts have changed my mind for two reasons:

          1) You’ve listed some very interesting facts with supporting links. The fact that the level of small particulate matter released by a wood fire in 10 hours is on par with a years with of a car’s emissions was particularly eye-opening.

          2) Your polite and respectful delivery in the face of aggressive and somewhat ignorant responses was really refreshing. Too often I’ve seen these conversation degenerate into the kind of nastiness that Ragnar posted (and from both sides, the “left” and the “right”), and it just all seemed so futile and wasteful. I’m glad you continued to take the high road, and make solid points even in the face of that, and I hope you continue to do so – it makes a difference in the long run even if the “shouters” seems to gain support in the short-term.

          Thanks again.

        • Nature doesn’t intend us to breath particulates? How do we survive dust storms then?

          The studies you quote are pure bs, written with pre-determined conclusions. How do you think they determine who has been breathing particulates of what size and for how long? City dwellers vs rural maybe? Then how do they control for confounding factors like stress levels, exercise levels, fresh vs stored food, etc etc? These are “questionnaire studies” relying on the subjects’ memories and willingness to lie to please the researchers.

          The annual death rate from CAD is about 0.0040%, so increasing it by 9% makes it 0.0043%. BFD. May be statistically significant but not clinically significant.

          • Oh dear. Another whole science (epidemiology) to deny. The science supports a ban on wood burning. Get over it and stop burning wood.

          • 1) most particles in dust storms are a lot larger than PM2.5 (which are almost exclusively from combustion processes)

            2) there are upwards of 1,000 studies linking PM2.5 to increased death rates. On average you can expect a 0.6% increase in *all* non-accidental death rates for every 1 ug/m3 increase in PM2.5 exposure. Some use census data to adjust for confounders, other recruit subjects in advance and do comprehensive tests.

            I cited the Canadian study because it involved some areas with only 1.9 ug/m3 of PM2.5 pollution. All PM2.5 exposure above this seemed to be associated with some increase in death rates. Median exposure was 7.3 ug/m3. Most people would see the USEPA “standard” of 12 ug/m3 as a pretty unhealthy level of pollution.

            3) In Christchurch, NZ, where most PM2.5 come from wood heating, the smokiest residential areas (about 20 ug/m3) had a 16% more total deaths, 68% more respiratory deaths, 22% more circulatory deaths http://www.3sc.net/airqual/mapping.html The health damage for areas that just met the US EPA standard of 12 ug/m3 was about 34% more respiratory deaths, 11% more circulatory deaths and 8% more total deaths than the cleanest areas. Virtually all commenters on this page seem to think this standard is far too strict. Personally, I think pollution lead to 34% more respiratory deaths and 11% more circulatory deaths is not an adequate level of protections for my health.

            4) But I’m also at a loss to understand the reason for the vehement objections to the EPA’s proposals. Even if EPA tightened the emissions limit for new wood stoves, it’s hardly likely to affect people living in isolated rural blocks where the smoke doesn’t bother nearby residents.

          • I think matty T is in his own world and should stay in it and out of ours

        • One of the most dangerous thing to Americans are the EPA dictators and their tyrannical and ridiculous regulations based on phony facts. For example, the IPCC tells us of the dangers of ‘global warming’ yet, the real facts are that the planet is cooling. I do not appreciate, and I will not comply, with these dictatorial bureaucrats. LEAVE US THE HELL ALONE. I can decide what is best for my family and for my country.

        • CaresAboutHealth, this is the most ridiculous information ever – no one who burns wood is warming themselves inside chimney, so particles are going out and undern normal conditions they go to sky and disperse over land. Banning stoves everywhere is just plain ridiculous and bureaucratic stupidity. Stoves should be banned in cities, but not rural(OR TRIBAL USE?!!!) or when camping unless it is dangerous and weather is hot(which does not makes sense to make fire) and everything is flammable.

          Information about cars that were mentioned, that they are safe now, is not entirelly correct – any car, that uses gasoline or petrol nowadays do not spread around as much lead, as they did earlier, but even then they are not entirelly safe… just a little safer, so anyway – I don’t recommend anyone eat apples, that are growing near motorways, but you should not have any health problems, eating apples in garden. that has stove, unless your religion does not allow it… There is another problem, why I wouldn’t recommend anyone to live near highways – even when cars would be electric – friction, that makes tires against road surface create particles of rubber and tarmac – the more cars are using road, the more particles they generate(this even more applies to cities, as people create friction by foot) – any open fire in with proper chimney compared to these friction particles is just ecological haven. Smoke has been companion of humans from dawn of the man – rubber particles aren’t.

          PS I can’t wait, when US are going to remove safety labels from things, because with such stupidity level any hermit, that lives in woods and use stove is much saner, than this freaky iPhone(you have 2 of them, right?) generation.

        • “Nature intended us to breathe air with no more than 2 to 5 micrograms per cubic meter (ug/m3) of fine particle pollution, ”

          Ahh, the “fine particle pollution” and no-one has valid research of carbon particles. Also a totally made-up limit, shaked from the sleeve: Random number which means nothing, basically.

          Nature “didn’t intend” man (as species) to live more than 40 years either, should we kill everybody older than that? _That_ would has much bigger impact on environment at every level than this kind of BS.

          Nice screw-up as it does matter what the _material of particles happen_ to be and writer doesn’t say a word about it. Nor does the research: Normally hard minerals are used, i.e. non-soluble material which accumulates in lungs and that is the dangerous part.

          Basically the claim here is that carbon particle in lungs is similar than asbestos particle. That being quite absurd doesn’t mean a thing to fanatics, they always yell about “fine particles”. Like here.

          “death rates increase with ever increase in PM2.5 levels from the lowest recorded values we know of. ”
          And this, my friends, is outright BS. Anyone using this as it is here, is a liar, worst kind.

          PM2,5 is basically irrelevant for water soluble materials and carbon happens to be one. Also we do know that woodstove particles are mostly pure carbon. Writer either doesn’t _or doesn’t care_ as it doesn’t fit into agenda.

          Agenda being: “Buy electricity from us!”. Just like the EPA-guys: Energy industry bribed puppets as burning coal is totally OK for them, only wood is dangerous. I wonder why is that?

          Because wood is free for most users?

          No-one bothers to explain how a water-solvable material, like carbon, is dangerous in lungs as it won’t accumulate there and you get a huge amount of carbon particles in to you lungs just by eating carbon tablets, eaten by millions of people daily.

          Another thing: How are these EPA-people going to ban forest fires? Biggest wood burning session in whole continent.

          • I’ve never seen soot dissolve in water. But I have seen documentaries showing autopsies of people with smokers lungs – they didn’t seem to be at all healthy to me.

            Why do people think that the EPA is banning stoves? It was reported that 7 US States as well as Earthjustice’s (on behalf of the American Lung Association, the Environmental Defense Fund, the Clean Air Council, and Environment and Human Health, Inc) filed lawsuits against the US EPA for not adequately limiting pollution from wood heaters. http://legalnewsline.com/news/federal-government/244769-seven-states-sue-epa-over-emissions-from-residential-wood-heaters

            Tests on mice and bacteria show that woodsmoke causes 12 to 30 times as many tumors and mutations as the same amount of tobacco smoke. Epidemiological research links the chemicals in wood smoke to genetic damage in babies, reduced IQ and behavioral problems when children start school. The same problems are found in developing countries in children whose mothers cook with wood, as opposed to kerosene stoves http://woodsmoke.3sc.net/pah

            These problems might not have mattered 100 years ago, when most people were involved in manual work. But today, a loss of a few IQ points can make a great deal of difference to future earnings. As far as I can tell the new stoves under the new regulations won’t cost any more than current models, so it seems like a ‘win-win’ situation to me, as it was when they cleaned up car pollution.

        • Autopsies of people with smokers lungs knows that “carbon” i.e. soot isn’t water soluble!!!!

          Many responses on this page appear to be mis-information adding to mis-information. The EPA isn’t banning stoves. In fact, 7 US States as well as Earthjustice’s (on behalf of the American Lung Association, the Environmental Defense Fund, the Clean Air Council, and Environment and Human Health, Inc) have filed lawsuits against the US EPA for not adequately limiting pollution from wood heaters! http://legalnewsline.com/news/federal-government/244769-seven-states-sue-epa-over-emissions-from-residential-wood-heaters

          Tests on mice and bacteria show that woodsmoke causes 12 to 30 times as many tumors and mutations as the same amount of tobacco smoke. Epidemiological research links the chemicals in wood smoke to genetic damage in babies, reduced IQ and behavioral problems when children start school. The same problems are found in developing countries in children whose mothers cook with wood, as opposed to kerosene stoves http://woodsmoke.3sc.net/pah

          These problems might not have mattered 100 years ago, when most people were involved in manual work. But today, a loss of a few IQ points can make a great deal of difference to future earnings. Surely people who can afford computers and internet connections should be able to afford pollution-free heating?

          Failing that, a tiny modicum of research on the internet would show that, as well as carbon soot not being water soluble:
          1) most particles in dust storms are a lot larger than PM2.5 (which come almost exclusively from combustion processes),
          2) there are upwards of 1,000 studies linking PM2.5 to increased death rates; on average you can expect a 0.6% increase in all non-accidental death rates for every 1 ug/m3 increase in PM2.5 exposure.
          3) In Christchurch, NZ, where most PM2.5 come from wood heating, the smokiest residential areas had a 16% more total deaths, 68% more respiratory deaths, 22% more circulatory deaths http://www.3sc.net/airqual/mapping.html
          4) Even if EPA tightens the emissions limit for new wood stoves, it’s not going to affect isolated rural blocks where the smoke doesn’t bother nearby residents.

          Here a good summary of why this issue should be taken seriously:
          “If you are not a smoker, burning wood is probably the greatest threat to your health as anything that you do. But it is also a threat to your neighbors’ health, as inappropriate as blowing cigarette smoke in the face of the passenger in the seat next to you. More than likely your neighbors are less than enthusiastic about sacrificing their health for your freedom to burn wood. A civilized society would suggest they shouldn’t have to.” http://www.standard.net/stories/2013/10/15/small-minority-who-burn-wood-are-responsible-much-our-pollution

        • CaresAboutHealth
          November 9, 2013 at 3:14 pm
          “…from a device that causes more pollution in 10 hours than the average car does in a year,…”

          What do you propose we do about all the volcanic eruptions around the world (currently about 28 highly active, with dozens lesser active -http://www.volcanodiscovery.com/erupting_volcanoes.html) that churn out more pollution in a year than man EVER has? What about all the fine particulate from that, which dwarf anything we produce in woodstoves? This is a crock- a red herring to grab control over yet another facet of our lives. And these trolls come here to dole out their passive-aggressive morality lectures about ‘health’. We’re immoral, but they are the ones supporting government take our choice s away at threat of force (that what laws are folks- if you don’t obey you might have to go to jail- that’s force at gunpoint). Who are the assaulters here?

          • Yes they have volcanoes in Detroit, Denver, Omaha and the San Fernando Valley and all the other suburban neighborhoods in America I hear.

            I mean come on, if you’ve got a sane, credible argument for being able to keep a wood stove in a residential neighborhood let’s hear it. At the moment all those in favor of polluting the neighborhood with cancer causing particulate pollution are losing the argument, and all they look like is petulant sociopaths who don’t give a damn about anyone else.

          • There are volcanoes in Hawaii – but you don’t plan to go on vacation, right? :))

          • When you all start paying for my alt heating source you may then take my wood stove, until then I will be burning wood, smoking, eating red meat, white fish, orange ruffy and the occasional red snapper. And for all you can’t understand normal thinking simpletons that’s all I got to say about that!

        • Tell that to those that have been spraying chem-trails ACROSS THIS NATION . http://truedemocracyparty.net/2011/11/chemtrails-fact-government-report/

          Time to wake up from our slumber!

        • ‘In Quebec, woodsmoke accounts for 61% of PM2.5 emissions’

          Oh? From what source. Here is the EPA’s own data on sources of PM2.5 emissions.

          Widlfires-20%
          Proscribed burns-15%
          Agriculture burns-2.25%
          Ag and livestock dust-14.25%
          Unpaved roads dust-13%
          Paved roads dust-4.35
          Construction Dust-2.25
          Residential wood-6%
          Diesel vehicle and equipment-3.6%
          Gasoline powered light vehicles-1%
          Commercial cooking-1.3%

          First, the sentence that a wood fire produces x times as much as a car sounds impressive, except that a car produces almost nothing, so the comparison is meaningless.

          Second, wildfires and proscribed burns produce six times (probably more, depenidng on the wildfire year) more than all the residential wood burning put together. And since we can assume that most of this is occurring in rural areas, the notion that you are being assaulted by it, or that it is a puiblic health hazard, is preposterous.

          • A woodfire directly upwind from your house or in the same airshed under an inversion layer pumping out 5 or 6 grams of soot for every lb of fuel is not insignificant pollution. Studies have shown ill health effects from 2.5 micron particulates at levels of 5 micrograms per cubic metre. Woodsmoke gets cities and towns to 80, 100 or even 200 micrograms per cubic metre. What is the number of standard EPA Phase II certified wood heaters you can have in your neighborhood so you are guaranteed not to pass into proven unhealthy levels in all weather conditions? Zero. That’s right zero. Because of the failure of policy to recognize that reality 29,000 annual US deaths are caused by woodsmoke.

            And look at the graph at http://cleanairnz.com/2013/08/18/an-economic-lesson-from-sydney/ to see what proportion wood smoke does to a modern city (a city where only 5% of houses burn wood, but are responsible for 75% of the particulates).

            The science is clear cut. (It is not deniable without looking like a kook) Wood burning is heavily polluting. It is also in residential neighborhoods. It kills people. It harms people. It causes many diseases from the yet to be born to the elderly and lots of people in between.

            The problem with wood burning is that the costs are largely externalized. i.e. the person who is doing the burning thinks it is cheap, but the (high, over $2000 a year per stove) cost is being borne by society. Economists say the best way to capture externalized costs is taxation. I am a low tax kind of guy, so whilst a $2000 a year tax would help clear the ari, I don’t think it is the best solution. The best solution is a public education campaign, not in the best way to burn right, (because they are all proven failures, since there is no best way to burn right), but why prohibition was necessary. Some people are going to find it hard to accept, but the evidence is clear. Prohibition is required. And after having being explained the reason, if they do go on about “taking it from my hot dead hands” rubbish then that is why it should not only be prohibited, but criminalized. Society demands clean air. Society deserves clean air. Those not with the program should face fines and jail time.

          • As shown, the the info comes from: http://www.pq.lung.ca/environment-environnement/wood_smoke-fumee_bois/enjeu-montreal/

            They may have meant the emissions people breathe. Most people don’t live in the middle of a wildfire, so most of the smoke goes up into the atmosphere and blows away harmlessly.

            It’s misleading to compare the amount of wildfire smoke with that from domestic wood stoves. The rain cap on a domestic chimney often directs the smoke downwards so you see it hits the walls and windows of neighboring homes.

            In general, the Quebec lung association consists of decent people who want to tell the truth and protect the health of the community.

          • Matty T, what do you plan to do about the freedom loving guy who will just shoot people like you who insist in imposing your tyranny on him? You might want to think that out before you go off on your self-righteous “I can manage your life and the world in general better than anybody else” crusade.

          • It ain’t a tyranny to ask someone not to assault you (and that is what woodsmoke is, assault). It’s insisting on good manners.

            You libertarians really are nasty and demented.

          • Emissions in a cubic meter of air comparing car exhaust and wood smoke is easy to measure. Total emissions in the air in a given area, say Quebec, is not comparable to some of the larger cities in the US, say L.A. Car exhaust is considerably more in some areas than proscribed burns, for example.

        • Screw the EPA!!!!!!!!!

        • Really, like nature intended when we LIVED IN CAVES, BREATHING SMOKE FROM SMOLDERING CAMPFIRES???? New idiots are born everyday. Dihygrogen monoxide kills too, lets ban it next.

          LIFE KILLS, LETS BAN IT NOW, starting with you!!!

        • So did you get that from the Mother Nature manual of assumed science and knowledge? Your an idiot.

        • Since when did nature intend something? That statement sounds like itis coming from someone who denies a creator but anthropamorphises nature as if it had a will and design of it’s own.

        • Humans have been using fires, both open and contained, for warmth for about a million years. We evolved with fire, without the slightest regard to particles of soot per million. On the whole, our relationship with fire has been enormously positive, saving far more lives from death from cold than ever died prematurely from inhaling soot.

          Granted, inhaling any smoke is unhealthy. But you’re far more likely to be killed by your car than by your woodstove.

          These new laws and regulations regarding woodstoves are actually nothing other than an imposition on poor people, who use them for heating their homes, on behalf of the oil and gas companies that might otherwise profit by selling more of their product. It is also a boondoggle on behalf of the companies who are making the new, for-now-approved woodstoves.

          These laws and regulations are pure extortion under color of law.

        • Our woodstove is our ONLY source of heat and I’m never going to give it up! The EPA should just butt the hell out!
          Why not control the smoke of a wildfire, or a volcano, or dust storms! The arrogance of the EPA is astounding!

        • Three kinds of lies: Lies,Damned Lies, & Statistics– Benjamin Disraeli

        • Biggest crock of shit I ever read… If you really want to save lives… and clean the air… Lets start with the noxious fumes coming out of DC for starters! All that gas and hot air has to be the cause of Global Warming… so if we eliminate those maybe this country can breath a little better… I am thinking this would cause a enormous positive trend in the financial markets too!!!

          Plus we can take all that melted ice that Algore was saying would be melted due to GW right now… and put it in the pixie dust re-constructor flux capacitor… and make it snow and that will also scrub the pollutants from the air and make them fall into the big hole on the other side of planet X….

    • Catherine C McCarty

      So if you used one of these DANGEROUS stoves for 20 years and got a breathing disorder or disease, would you sue the manufacturer?

      • I have used one for 40 years, I have no respiratory problems, at 75 my lungs are still fine. Sue? no I am not one of those turds that look to get on easy street through litigation.

        • I’m with you. Been heating with wood for a real long time. Burned 6 big brush piles this morning that I’d pushed-up with a D8. No real waste in them, folks had cut out all the good logs. Hope I didn’t offend anyone. Yup, the land will be plowed and re-planted with oak/pine sprouts.

      • So Chemtrails , GMO’s, Smart meters are just fine, but burning wood is a danger?? This is about control and Agenda 21.

        • yep, thats what its all about .

        • yes. coal and crude oil are perfectly fine but woodstoves, those are the real threat…

          • while huge companies dig up huge amounts of fossil fuels (gas, gasoline) and then burn them in huge quantities, pouring out huge amounts of pollution, others make nuclear reactors, fukushima, three mile island etc that not only leak and fail dramatically, but also produce massive amounts of radioactive materials with active lives in the hundreds of thousands of years which they have no idea how to safely dispose of, while vehicles run on fossil fuel (and they still are heavy pollutors despite being regulated on SOME emissions), the government are concerned with wood burning stoves? its a joke…..all of you sat here online complaining about the effects of someones woodsmoke on your life seem to not realise that having a computor with its many rare earth minerals like iridium also harm others lives in their war torn countries ripped apart by trade with warring warlords and the likes of microsoft who need those rare earth minerals to make your phones, pc and any other electrical item in your house. If you are concerned about someone elses woodsmoke, get offfline now as you are also harming other people…..hypocrisy?

          • Don’t forget about water being a pollutant too! Or dust from a dirt road.

      • No you cannot sue the manufacturer, BUT…. 0bamacare will not cover your health problems because you were using an illegal device. lol

    • The Feds are Constitutionally permitted to get involved when there is an interstate issue that the States in question cannot practically resolve themselves. End of discussion.

    • No need to hyperventilate. EPA is just requiring new wood stoves to be clean. Shouldn’t a new stove be clean?

    • I suppose they will ban volcanoes as well………

    • And how are we suppose to heat our homes when the Grid goes down????????????????

    • Actually the Government is rapidly approaching being in control. Complete control. Of everything you do or think of doing.

  2. Perhaps they will send their EPA-SWAT teams to enforce their Draconian socialist Agenda 21 rules.

    • This is part of the UN Agenda 21 effort to force people out of rural areas and into multi-story urban residences. Sure we need clean air, but we do NOT need a central-planning, top-down, one-size-fits-all mandate.

    • Catherine C McCarty

      When did people start equating the EPA with evil? They DO NOT have swat teams. They have people like you and me who try to protect all of us from bad products.

      • Cati, you better take of your liberal tinted glasses. the EPA has turned into a monster agency that at every turn is trying to control everything. and now trying to take complete control of all wetlands controlling all water public and private. to build a bigger agency with a bigger budget they need to extend their tentacles into everything in support of agenda 21..

      • EPA do in fact have aremd enforcement agents, and can (and do) call in other Federal agency SWAT teams whenever their little stiff upper lips quiver at the thought of coming in and playing bully on some unsuspecting citizen minding his own business and doing nothing harmful. SO — you’ve been reading those fairy talkes again. Reality often sucks, but when the reality is EPA on the rampage, it REALY sucks. They have NO COnstitutional authority to regulate ANY of what they do to torment us.

      • Catherine…do you read at all? You are way behind times in the current events of this country.

      • Every department of the federal government, Dept of Education, FDA, and yes, the EPA as well, has a SWAT team. You still assume that these agencies are set up for our protection. Open your eyes. They only serve the corporations they are supposed to regulate. Of course, that might have something to do with all the revolving doors between government and industry. And if you have any questions about whether the EPA would actually use it’s SWAT team, do a bit of google-fu and look up it’s latest SWAT actions in Alaska.

      • Actually EPA does have SWAT teams – Most of the Federal agencies do now.

      • Yes, they DO have SWAT teams and they’re starting to use them liberally.
        Wake up and smell the tyranny!

      • No EPA SWAT teams or paramilitarized enforcers? You must have missed this article: http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/20130903/gold-miners-near-chicken-cry-foul-over-heavy-handed-epa-raids

        And I’m sure that you’ve been to busy to have read about similar over-the-top armed raids on small farms and organic food producers.

        At their root, these are Agenda 21-driven actions and events. The ultimate goal of which is the drastic reduction of the world’s population and the installation of the survivors in Communist Chinese-style barracks.

  3. This has nothing to do with clean air.

    What they want to do is promote the buying of the rare minerals for the catalytic convert from a debtor country that buys our bonds aka CHINA. The same with the push to end real light bulbs. The rare elements for LEDs (element 31 -see the company CCX) come almost exclusively from other countries, mainly China. The more debt that is bought, the greater the collapse of the USA and world wide reserve currency to bring in the new One World Order.

    =====
    Rev 13 (KJV)
    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

    17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    =====

    They are actually playing mind games with the public and openly mocking them.

    ► Maurice Strong MMT – CCX Al Gore – fleecing your pocket while playing name games.

    “Now, what about Al Gore’s Chicago Climate Exhange aka CCX ?

    c #3 c #3 x #24 = #31 On the Periodic table #31 = Gallium

    It is used in solar panels and LEDs. You know, the “green” stuff technology. A “molten” metal, it melts at room temperature, where have I heard that before? I know “Molten Metals Technologies” !

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium

    “As it liquefies slightly above room temperature, it will melt in the hand.”

    “In semiconductors, an important application is in the compounds gallium arsenide and gallium nitride, used most notably in light-emitting diodes (LEDs). Semiconductor use is now almost the entire (> 95%) world market for gallium, but new uses in alloys and fuel cells continue to be discovered.”

  4. ban the f$#@!%$ e.p.a. this gov. keeps making things harder and harder for us. im tired of it. ill likely build a ‘rocket stove mass heater’ im sure the d$#@! l#@%^ epa wont approve of
    it either it. too bad. im not gpnna freeze. its kinda like this gov, + their stupid little ‘agencies’ are squeezing us. majlkng it harder and harder to even breath. if the epa is so concerned about us using stoves( they approve of.) they should buy us those stoves . (yeah, right) i think its just -part of agenda 21,

    • I just relined an old very small woodstove with fire bricks so that it will FUNCTION like a rocket stove. Hey – they give off very little smoke and are very efficient and I live where its very cold – Average temps and snowfall same as Anchorage- in New York!
      It’s not about the smoke – but greater efficiency -I can’t wait til I test it soon.

      It’s not just about China. WOOD IS THE ONLY FUEL THEY CAN’T TAX – and that bothers them.

      The Amish here are very upset and lots moved to other states when the DEC tried this a few years back. What are they supposed to do???

  5. it does not surprise me that the government wants to “outlaw” the most efficient, cost saving way of heating/cooking! imagine if we could heat our dwellings with wood from our own properties…how would the government make ant money off of us? and, what if we were able to grow our own food without GMO interference, can it on our woodstoves and put it down for the winter without paying the government? let the EPA enjoy their processed GMO food on their electric stoves…Happy canning, ya’ll!

    • I am reminded of how the Chinese emperors ruled the people by making it illegal to buy or sell salt without government approval. If you were caught black-marketing salt (dug out of salt mines or recovered from the sea) without permission, the penalty was death. Still, many entrepreneurs risked death, because government monopolies and price fixing made salt as expensive as gold. It was one of the primary sources of revenue for governments as well as one of the tightest bonds.

      Why salt? Because there was no refrigeration back a couple of millennia ago, and salt was used not just for enhancing the flavor of foods, but also for preserving foods (brining meats or pickling vegetables). Salt was a life and death commodity, and tyrants controlled the supply in order to control the people.

      We no longer rely on salt for life. Yes, we still use it for brining meats and canning, but we aren’t forced to use it for survival. We now have refrigeration to preserve meats and vegetables, and that requires dependable energy supplies.

      Enter modern government to tap into the controlling power of energy. Whether it’s fossil fuels or electricity, they control the availability and price of energy. There is little difference in the purposes of today’s governments and those of governments of millennia past. They simply want to control the people via the simplest and most ubiquitous means available. Everyone (except folks like the Amish, Mennonites, and some off-griders) is totally dependent upon energy today. It is the people’s weakest link and government’s strongest chains.

  6. seems these idiots at the epa reflect the idiocy of the administration.
    they have always been on the left and align themselves or are influenced by the like of the sierra club.
    all are social theorist with no practical experience or workable knowledge.
    also they are in the upper crust, and have no consideration for lower economic situations.
    As far as they are concerned, “if you can’t afford it, go die”.
    Those clowns can shove it! I will keep the stove I have had for 40 years.
    If they want to give me a “clean” stove of equivalent btu’s free I will take it, otherwise they can go to hell.

    • RAGMAR DON’T BE A FUCKWIT. I HAVE A FUCKWIT WOOD BURNER UPWIND FROM ME AND I’D GLADLY POUT A BULLET IN HIS BRAIN. HE DUZNT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT ME OR MY FAMILY. HE DRIVES A PRIUS AND HE’S A WOODBURNER COZ HE SAYS IT IS GOOD FOR THE ENVIROONMENT. I ALREADY HAVE PUNCHED HIM ONCE, AND FUCK I AM GOING TO DO IT AGAIN. HE’S AN IGNORANT PIECE OF SHIT. GooD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT MY ASS. WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER. I DON”T WANT ME OR MY FAMILY TO GET CANCER. MY MOM DIED OF CANCER. IT SUCKED.

      IDON”T CARE IF MR OBAMA DID IT HIMSELF BY PRESIDENTIAL DECREE BUT ITS TIME TO BAN ALL WOOD BURNING. PEOPLE ARE AS DUMB AS FUCK AND DON’T KNOW WHAT IS GOOD FOR THEM, AND WHAT IS GOOD FOR ALL OF US. ONLY FUCKWITS WOULD THINK OTHERWISE.

  7. The EnviroMENTAL nazis are at it again!! We don’t need that bloated agency and it ridiculous “rules.” They are not lawmakers and therefore cannot enforce law!!! Screw them!!!!

    • YOU CALLING ME A FUCKING NAZI BECAUSE I WANT TO GET RID OF WOOD SMOKE POLLUTION WHERE I LIVE? I’LL FUCKING GET YOU BETEWEEN THE EYES SISTER.

      DON”T BE A FUCKWIT CHUCK.

  8. Well good thing the government is shut down because 96% of the EPA staff are consider non essential workers and with what few they have left they won’t be able to enforce this.
    I hope they keep it shut down for a year then people will realize just how over bloated our government has become and most these people are not needed anyway.

  9. So where does the EPA get its authority outside of Washington D.C. Who is that dip Sh** liberal broad in the red coat? What a wimpy bunch of people being interviewed. What a bunch of liberal wimpy pukes.
    This is proof that government is totally out of control and has to be taken back. The U.S. government is illegal and totally out of whack, and for the people of the county mentioned, or the community involved, they are out of sync for allowing this to happen.

  10. This is just a continuation of the plan by Obama, his masters (for lack of a better term), and his sycophants to turn this country into a third world country with them in charge.
    Their goal is the ruin of the United States of America by any means necessary.

    • > to turn this country into a third world country with them in charge.

      You under estimate them.

      When Bill Ayers dreamed of killing 30,000,000 Americans when a member of the Weather Under Ground, how many do you think he wants killed today with a bigger population?

      Their goal is to depopulate the world to 2 billion elites and under. They want to eliminate all blacks, Hispanics, Mongoloid races, etc.

      They want the USA down to a few million mostly to run the farms where they want the high speed Internet installed. They want the infrastructure in place so it can be rebuilt cheaply and easier later because they plan on most of the people being dead, that are skilled enough to install it and build it.

  11. THESE NEW EPA APPROVED STOVES ARE GOOD FOR YOU, LIKE OBUMMERCARE!

    • EPA CWERTIFIED WOOD BURNER IS A FUCKING JOKE. ALL WOOD BURNERS MAKE CANCER CAUSING WOOD SMOKE. THE EPA SAYING WHICH WOODBURNERS ARE OK TO USE IS LIKE COPS TELLING CRIMINALS WHICH ARE THE BEST BULLETS TO USE. THE EPA SHOULD DO ITS JOB AND BAN THE FUCKING THINGS.

  12. Dammit. What would a law-abiding person do if they had two homes with wood burning stoves for heat, a small mountain of good split firewood at each of them and acres of hardwood timber ? I’ll have to study on that….

  13. Let’s see $1.5 million to help 24,000 = $64.50 per person. I’m sure there are plenty of qualified stoves available for less than $100. Or maybe you can find one for $645???
    Perhaps better use of their efforts would be by putting all EPA people on fire lines at all wildfires. That way they can either reduce particulate matter significantly or at least reduce their interference with us.

  14. And you wonder why the gvt. is broke? in common gvt. fashion the EPA lets industries dump tons of pollution into the air while they sit back and do noting (probably because said industries fatten the pockets of the right people) while they tighten the screws to the little ole wood burning stoves? What a joke. I hope everyone in Washington gets frostbite this winter…

  15. Wow Clean Air B.S. what about all the factories and the cars and several other things that are way worse then wood burners !

    • ITS NOT A FACTORY UPWIND FROM ME CAUSING ME NUIISANCE. IT IS A FUCKWIT NEIGHBOR AND THEIR STINKING WOODFIRE.

      RYAN JUST BECAUSE THERE ARE LOTS OF FUCKWEITS IN IRAN, DOESN”T MEAN YOU”RE NOT A FUCKWIT AS WELL.

  16. REALY- Post FUKASHIMA the EPA is worried about wood burning stoves? Send the EPA to Fukashima- when they are done there, they can come back and tell us what to do…

    • They don’t have to send them to Japan. The fallout is now in the Pacific ocean and headed for California.

      • A BETTER PLACE TO SEND THEM! RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MARINAS TRENCH.
        LET THE MONITOR THE RAD LEVELS AT 5K BELOW THE SURFACE IN THEIR UNDERWEAR. THEY CAN BREATH CO2 WHILE THEY ARE THERE.

  17. WHY DON’T THESE PEOPLE MOVE TO NORTH KOREA!!! NOW A PERSON CAN’T EVEN HAVE A SIMPLE FIRE OR STOVE!!!! If I were a business or a resident I would move. I wouldn’t give these communists another cent of my tax money. AND, I won’t buy a single item or service made there.

    • NORTH KOREA IS DEPENEDANT ON WOOD FOR FUEL AND HAS LOTS OF POLLUTIUON BECAUSE OF IT. WE AREN’T FUCKING POOR LIKE THEM SO WE HAVE THE OPTION NOT TO BURN WOOD. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU WANT TO MAKE US HAVE SHIT AIR LIKE THE Y DO IN NORT KOREA? ARE YOU A FUCKING COMMUNIST?

  18. Are they going to seize our fireplaces next?

  19. The government can ban whatever they want. I don’t care, since I simply will not comply. My kitchen has an electric as well as an antique wood burning cook stove complete with water jacket for generating my hot water. The stove is a 1930’s model Majestic. I’ll be burning wood this winter. The EPA and any other Nazi department in the US government can just kiss my hairy butt!!

    • IF YA NEIGHBORS ASKED ME TO JOIN A POSSE TO HELP PROTECT THEM FROM UNWANTED WOOD SMOKE POLLUTION I”D GLADLY OFFER THEM MY GUNS, MY AMMO AND MY SERVICES.

  20. This article is just spreading misinformation. All existing woodstoves will be “grandfathered” meaning these new regulations won’t impact anyone’s existing stoves, but will only impact what is sold in the future. Second, the new regulations will make our stoves much more efficient, just like regulations do with refrigerators or washing machines or any other appliance. This is good for us consumers, and usually the price of the appliance doesn’t even go up much, if at all. This reporter should get the facts before writing this rubbish. These new EPA regulated stoves will heat our homes much more affordably than the old unregulated ones. But if you still really want an old, inefficient junker, there will be plenty of the second hand market and EPA does not regulate anyone buying and installing these old ones.

    • I have no reason to doubt your criticism of the article, so I won’t go there. But I do worry about EPA regulations that have good intentions but end up generating wicked unintentional consequences. A thorough review is required to compare old stoves with new stoves that meet the regulations.

      It may well be that the new stoves save fuel and generate more heat in a controlled manner, but I can’t help considering what happened with the low-volume flush toilets. Not only do they require a lot of people (in fact, everyone I know, but I won’t say everyone, because there are always exceptions) to make multiple flushes to clear the bowl, often with the assist of a toilet plunger, but the low-flow in the sewer lines causes backups in mains. Instead of being carried to the processing plant with a strong flow from the input of thousands of toilets, waste moves more slowly, with a trickle of water moving past the waste but not moving it along. To remedy the the situation, either more water has to be injected into the system (defeating the purpose of the low-volume toilets), or the sewer lines need to be relaid, so they have a greater slope to help increase the velocity of the fluids running through them (adding significant expense to the entire system). Unintended consequences.

      The EPA mandated the use of ethanol in gasoline, supposedly to help air quality. But the unintended consequences of this move are legion! From reduced gas mileage, to damaged fuel systems and engines, to radical changes in the food and feed supply. Due to federal subsidies given to farmers to grow corn, many fields have been converted from traditional food crops to corn, which is also a very thirsty plant that takes much more water per acre than other crops. Due to bioengineering of corn to better produce ethanol, the corn that is planted for the fuel industry no longer has much in the way of nutrition, so it is not so good as a feed additive. On top of all this, we have insects and weeds that are increasingly immune to Monsanto’s spraying regimens. Since these GMO crops are becoming less diverse and more of a monoculture, when some insect, bacteria, or mold finally adapts to the chemicals, they will run unchecked through acre after acre. Is it possible that we will see something like the Irish Potato Famine across the Breadbasket of America?

      I’m sure others can point out more folly from the EPA, all stemming from good intentions from brilliant scientists who are too smart to calculate the unintended consequences of their brilliance.

      • > I’m sure others can point out more folly from the EPA,

        MBTE in Maine’s water supply.

        The market should drive stove design, not the EPA. Anyway, it is all about creating a market for the rare minerals and metals used in the concerter, for nations that buy our debt, and transferring wealth from us to them.

    • The EPA has already regulated woodstoves into being less polluting and more efficient. That happened over a decade ago. Stoves over a certain size must have catalytic combuster, and other efficiency improvements were also required. This did, in fact, make larger stoves harder to come by and MUCH more expensive.

  21. Not to worry Wumingren, the fires are burning tonight. It’s good to warm the ‘ol bones next to the stove. These EPA folks don’t know what they’re missing. Have been really cold, really warm too. I’ll take warm….

  22. I most certainly will quickly seize a person’s feed while i are not able to uncover the electronic mail registration web page link or e-newsletter support. Complete you may have any kind of? I implore you to figure out to ensure that I could just signed up. Many thanks.

  23. %*&@#! the EPA. If they want my stove, as with my guns, MOLON LABE …

    • THEY CAN”T TAKE MY GUNS AS I”LL NEED THEM TO PROTECT MY HOME FROM POLLUTION THAT FUCKWITS LIKE YOU MAKE.

      STOP BURNING SHIT AND SMOKING OUT YA NEIGHBORS YOU DUMB FUCK,.

  24. pricks.
    You are imposing your romantic notion that burning wood onto your neighbours. The smoke infiltrates the houses of your neighbours with noxious fumes. Are you just bonkers.
    I had to accept the aboliiton of passive smoking in pubs and restaurants. What you are doing, with your smug insistance on your rights, is harming others deprived of your choice whether to light your stove or not. I would rather you didn’t, but you are going to do so anyway. What about my freedom not to have your life choice into my lungs
    Hu?

    • If you’re a Limey (judging by spelling and word choice), you don’t get a vote. You folks have your own problems to mend. Leave us alone. We have people living out in the boondocks with the closest neighbor being miles away, but contending with people who live in cramped cities who want all of humanity living in cramped cities. You Limeys are stacked up in your stupid little cottages with your stupid little winding roads. Bugger off!

      • wumingren
        Wood smoke gets into neighbour’s houses. Obviously if it is a rural area and miles away from a neighbour perhaps it’s less of a problem.However, you american guys have towns and cities too, and you have your own idiots still insisting on some mythical god given right to mess with their neighbour’s right to clean air. You are probably nice guys within your own lives, but you are blinkered on this issue. Wood burning stoves in urban areas immediately should be banned, and in rural areas some leeway might be considered on an individual basis depending on the circumstances. The point is, the choice of whether pollution is acceptable or not should not be given to idiots who install these things, but the poor sods on the receiving end of their “liberty” to hurt the health of others.

        • I do get your point about wood smoke in cities. In fact, even up here in the cold northland of Minnesota, most large cities and their suburbs have already forbidden the use of open fireplaces. My old neighbor used to burn all his junk mail in his fireplace; and that was really awful and illegal. The new neighbor burns wood from time to time, and it is actually a pleasant aroma.

          But, when the SHTF and the grid goes down, people aren’t going to abide by any regulations. As I recall, the pensioners in England were burning books, fence boards, interior wood trim, and even furniture there for awhile, because the cost of heating their homes had skyrocketed due to the green weenies’ energy mandates. I can only imagine how that smelled, with all the paint and lacquer on the wood. Ew! It was in 2010, wasn’t it? Are they still doing that?

    • Obviously you do not see the big picture, England has already given up its rights, so stuff it.
      wood pollution is not the problem, government pollution is. this is just another part of All Gores global warming B.S. You talk like the monkey glands you are. This is another facet of agenda 21.

      • I should add, i live in a rural area with 15 acres of standing hardwood, that wood is my supplemental heat.
        It is also for when we loose our electric power.
        I am not changing my stove to please some pencil necked socialist.
        p.t. why don’t you go hug a muzzi with your multi cultural zest. you sir fit the profile

        • I THINK YOU”LL FIND DUMB AS SHIT RAGNAR THAT EVEN THE MOST FERVENT OF THEM HERE AREN”T SUGGESTING YOURS IF YOU ARE ON 15 ACRES. THEY ARE SAYING RESIDDENTIAL AREAS.

          SO STOP BEING A FUCKWIT. THEY AHVE A LEGITIMATE POINT. WOODSMOKE IS FUCKING CANCER CASUSING AND IN MY (RESIDENTIAL) NEIGHBORHOOD IT IS GIVING ME THE SHITS. I’D LIKE TO PUT A BULLET THROUGH MY UPWIND NEIGHBORS BRAINS, BECAUSE THEY ARE FUCKING SMOKING ME OUT EVERY FUCKING NIGHT FOR 8 MONTHS OF THE FUCKING YEAR AND I AM AT MY WITS END AND THAT FUCKER IS GOING TO DIE. HE DRIVES A FUCKING PRIUS FOR GODSAKE. WHAT A FUCKING HYPOCRITE.

          SO RAGNAR DON’T BE A DICK. IF PEOPLE LIVE CLOSE TO OTHER PEOPLE THEN IT IS FUCKING RUDE TO SMOKE THEM OUT.

      • Quit feeding the government roll.

    • WELL SAID DUDE.

  25. If all the lights go out I suppose we’ll all be at the barricades and anything can happen. But the point is the lights are on at the moment. If there is a shortfall in power to light and heat homes in the grid then it is the state’s roll to invest in alternate sources – fracking, nuclear, hydro. Not exactly an anti republican stance. I am not some environmenalist nut. A mixed portfolio is what is required,what I am dead against is my neighbours right to smoke me out of my gardent and my home whenever it comes up his humph to light these abominations up.

    note to wumigren I live in scotland, not england, but if the shit went down I would go out and shoot cats and dogs to eat, and I would cook them on an open fireplace if I had to. At them moment in our aspirational wee suburb this isn’t happening at the moment. What is happening at the moment is that i cannot use my garden or sit relaxed in my home without the air and my clothes being bogging with smoke

  26. What’s next?wearing a charcoal lined diaper to catch all the methane gas out your butt pipe,cause sitting in a pub with your cig second hand smoke and noxious gas attack is not my cup of tea for my clean air.butt,if that’s where you want to be that’s your right. So where does the madness end.Man has burned fires for centuries,for warmth,for cooking,for protection,blacksmithing,etc.Its all about control and you don’t need a phd to figure that out.

    • God put trees on earth for us to use. Same as oil. People in both the UK and USA worry about the external of the cup instead of the internal. The internal which causes you to support socialist governments borrowing against your unborn grand children;s future.

      You worry about a tithe of smoke in your eyes while burying future generations under a mudslide of mud, rocks, and poo.

      Burn all the trees you can, while planting as many trees as you can for future generations, and screw the EPA.

  27. yep man lived in caves and burned fires for centuries. Man also had a life expectancy of 32 years while they did so.
    Breathing clean air is progress. There are cleaner alternatives to burning wood. I don’t want to breath wood smoke, why should you wood stovies be allowed to inflict it on me. I’ve done nothing to you. Go away out in a cave

    • EndCorruptCorporatocracy

      Please do the rest of us a favour and stop breathing. There! Problem solved, old chap! ; )

    • Education is whats needed and the lack of it is very apparent from all these replies

      • THERE SHORE AQRE SOME THICK AS SHIT DUMBASSES HERE BILL. SO I AGREE WITH YOU 100%.

        NOW HOW DO WE EDUCATE THESE DUMBASSES?

        WRITE OUT 100 TIMES ALL YOU THICK AS SHIT FUCKWITS:

        WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER.
        WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER.
        WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER.
        WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER.
        WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER.
        WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER.
        WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER.
        WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER.
        WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER.
        WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER.
        WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER.
        WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER.

    • “peter trainor
      October 22, 2013 at 1:56 am

      yep man lived in caves and burned fires for centuries. Man also had a life expectancy of 32 years while they did so.”

      Mr. Trainor- it wasn’t because they weren’t healthy enough, it’s because they had fewer protections from disease, and the many deaths in childbirth and childhood drag the average down significantly, even when healthy adults that make it to 24 are highly likely to make it to 60 or more. If this is the level of your understanding of such statistics, then it’s understandable that this regulation would sound good to you, but as you can see you aren’t fully understanding even something this simple fully, perhaps you ought to consider more and declare less.

  28. Magnificent points altogether, you simply won a logo new reader. What might you recommend about your publish that you just made a few days in the past? Any positive?

    • if carlocksmith is asking what I recommend. I recommend going ont othe FAMILIES FOR CLEAN AIR website.
      At the moment trying to ban wood burning stoves is unpopular. I find resistance to this attempt to ban woodburning stoves deluded.
      For instance…
      I live in scotland, a modern state, you would think. But the proliferation of chic urban wood burning stoves is something that local councils, mp’s, seem reluctant to do anything about.
      70% of outside smoke gets into my house, (according to articles I’ve read).
      this cause injury to many people.
      What is needed is to disabuse people of the “folk memory” glamour of using wood burning and coal burning in urban areas as some sort of expiation of their dormant primal self sufficiency. This is needed because this lifestyle choice is being exported to unwilling beneficiaries of this selfish choice inside innocent homes.
      Around 8’oclock at night, sitting in my house, there arrives the unmistakable sour sweet odour of my neighbour’s wood burning stove molecules finally achieving a mass in my living room for my nose to detect it. Of course, before I can detect it this way, these molecules are working their ways invisibly into my body.
      I am astonished that pollutive indifference is held up as a sort of virtuous attribute of pioneer/ frontiersman mentality. These guys seem to walk about with their chest out proclaiming this is an act of personal freedom and independance. Meanwhile their neighbours children are having their health compromised and the adults are living lives of quiet desperation wondering when will this rotten farce finally be abolished by law.

      • MONKEY GLANDS, This is not about “folk memory”. It is about economic survival and excessive government control.
        All the wood stoves in this country do not, for a year, by emissions, add up to one day of pollution from China’s industrial coal pollution.
        I live in a rural area where I would guess 90+% of the people have wood or coal stoves.
        It gets pretty damn cold here unlike your moors.
        Remember your weather is tempered by the Atlantic, our winter temps can and do go below 0deg.f.
        Go complain to your MP about your problem with the smoke. you have no business sticking you bloody nose in our affairs.
        You sound like that bloody twit Pierce Morgan, who rants and raves about our countries problems, he, an outsider from G.B. If it is so bad here for him he can go back and join forces with you and attack parliament.
        when you get your pollution victory there, then come here and attempt to change our system.

        • Eyjafjallajokull – Everyone Yells Justice Always Fails Just As Lonely Losers Ascribe Jokes Obama Knows Ultimately Laugh Last at the global warming scam.

          Should Obama ask the EPA to sue God ?

          I am no scientist, but, I am pretty sure that one eruption has thrown more CO2 and soot into the air then the combined output of everything in the USA for a year.

          • I DON”T LIVE NEXT DOOR TO A FUCKING VOLCANO. BUT I LIVE DOWNWIND OF A FUCKWIT WHO BURNS WOOD. THAT STUPID FUCKING PRIUS DRIVING FUCKER WITH A STUPID UGLY BITCH WIFE TO FUCK SHOULD STOP FUCKING BURNING BEFORE I FUCKING MAKE HIM STOP.

            WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER> IT ALSO FUCKING STINKS.

            MY GOD TELLS ME IT IS OK TO HARM THOSE THAT ARE HARMING ME AND MY FAMILY. HE WON”T EVEN KNOW WHAT FUCKING HIT HIM.

      • TIME TRAVEL AND FIND THIS BOOK. “WHAT WE MUST KNOW ABOUT COMMUNISM”

        Harry & Bonaro Overstreet

        (New York: W. W. Norton & Co., Inc. 1958)”

      • Take a look at a population density map of Scotland. Then take a look at one for the US, while also keeping in mind that much of the US is a good bit colder than Scotland. Woodburning isn’t something urban folks have the yard space to do much of, as even one cord of wood takes up a sizable chunk of an urban yard. Where I live, a winter’s supply is at least 5 cords. Rural population densities here are small enough that the smoke is just. Not. A. Problem. Where we live, there are less than 10 people per square mile.

        That said, we are building a straw bale house, which will be heated by a rocket mass heater…which emits only water vapor and CO2.

        If 70% of outside smoke is getting into your house, it must be about as well-sealed as a corncrib. Better check into some improved weatherproofing.

        • WOODSMOKE GETS INTO MY HOUSE WITH ALL THE WINDOWS SHGUT AND THE SHUTTERS DRAWN. IT AIN’T MY PROBLEM THAT MY HOUSE ISN”T AIR TIGHT. IT IS TE FUCKWIT SMOKING ME OUT OF MY HOUSE.

          TELLING ME TO SHUT THE WINDOWS OR WHATEVER IT AIN”T FUCKING GOOS ENOUGH. IT IS FUCKING ENOUGH TO BE ON MY DECK, BUT SOME FUCKWIT THINKS IT IS COLD ENOUGH TO BURN.

          ALL WOOD BURNING SHOULD BE BANNED IF SOMEONE ELSE HAS TO BREATHE IT. IT CAUSES CANCER. I DON”T WANT FUCKING CANCER. ALREADY LOST ONE KID TO CANCER. AND MY MUM.

          WOOD BURNERS ARE FUCKWITS. THEY SHOULD FUCKING STOP.

  29. er…ragner old boy
    Your “Off the grid News” is posted on the world wide web, I take it you get the concept of the WORLD WIDE web. So I have every business to “stick my nose in” as
    Global pollution is a world wide probem as it affects global warming. So again, er, I have a vested interest in stopping twits burning wood across the globe.
    You yourself have taken it upon yourself to draw world wide comparisions and I quote :
    “All the wood stoves in this country do not, for a year, by emissions, add up to one day of pollution from China’s industrial coal pollution.”
    Firstly my beef is that I do not have as my next door neighbour “China’s Industrial Coal Pollution” . I’ll make this plainer, very slowly, CHINA AIN’T MY NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOUR. I have twits with wood burning stoves, who get all angry like you, because i don’t think your smoke should infiltrate my house or garden. name calling just means that your petted lip is showing.
    Try debating this issue rationally, and quit calling people monkey glands. Though quite why monkey glands should achieve higher insultative status than lemur glands passes me by. Then again, I ain’t an ignornant wannabe hillbilly like you who proably doesn’t burn wood out of “necessity ” at all, but actually lives within a few feet of others in a safe village or small town, who thinks of himself as a woodsman, and plagues the hell out of them with your “rights” . So I think you are a kidder-on. A real person who liveds in a forest and burns stuff lying around to hand, probably is living in the woods to be away from other people, therefore will not bother other people. Lighting up a wood burning stove around others, bothers other people, You betcha.
    Secondly you try to compare the offensive output of wood stoves in your neck of the woods to the pollution produced by the most pollutitive industrial process by the most populous nation on earth.
    er – you have a bit of an inexact comparison model there old boy. You’ll have to think about this a bit. Oh you don’t get it, of here I go, have to explain CHINA IS VERY BIG, wood burning stovies are MUCH SMALLER IN NUMBER. Ergo (that means therfore ) of course China will produce a zillion times more pollution than wood stovies. A better comparison would have been to calculate the pollution per each individual wood burning flue against the same energy produced by a biomass flue burned by efficient industrial power plants. Your stupid lethal little stove will lose this one.
    I am all in favour of biomass power plants because it has to conform to standards. Twits at their wood burners in urban areas can burn what they like if the choose to. And boy some choose to burn all sorts of things. This I want stopped.
    Thirdly, I am not complaining about people who live way out in the woods by themselves who burn wood of necessity. I am talking about the trendies who think it gives them “natural” cache to burn wood in urban areas. You talk english right. I mean do you get it now.
    Fourthly I don’t like Piers Morgan either.

    • > Global pollution is a world wide probem as it affects global warming.

      News alart, there is no such thing as global warning and Manning changed the data and rewrote the programs to give false results aka hockey stick. You did read the released e-mails didn’t you?

      The real data shows the planet has been cooling the last 11 years, not getting hotter.

      The earth is doing exactly as God promised in Genesis 8. Hot and cold,m winter and summer.

    • Monkey glands. FIRST off I AM NOT I AM NOT A IGNORANT HAYSEED.
      I AM A 75 YEAR OLD RETIRED MECHANICAL ENGINEER.
      A graduate of Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, Massachusetts, USA.
      Apparently you have no idea what an acre is. My closest neighbor is about 1k yards away.
      I stated that I live on 15 of them which I own outright. I also stated that I am in a rural area.
      It is libtards like you who want to control and herd people to follow your will.
      I am well aware of our global reach with the internet. That reach does not give you the right to interfere with our internal politics. You are just a pissy whiner.
      I am also well traveled as a professional and with the military.
      I speak English, and not the king’s English. Apparently your comprehension skills are lacking in the language, seeing you did not fathom what I posted.
      I closing, If you are surrounded by evil wood burners, why not leave GB for some third world country in the torrid zone where you can happily live a wood pollution free life.

      • RAGNAR IS A FUCKWIT. HE IS A LIBATARIAN (NOT TO BECONFUSED WITH A LIBRARIAN). LIBATARIANS ARE ALL FUCKING SIMPLETONS. FOR SOME DUMB REASON THAY THINK IT IS BETTER THAT THEY CAN BURN ANY OLD SHIT THEY LIKE, RATHER THAN ME NOT BREATHING SHIT I DON WANNA BREATHE.

        THAT MEANS IN MY MORALITY I CAN SHOOT THEM DEAD AND I STILL AM A GOOD MAN.

        RAGNAR IS A BIT OF A DICK> I BELEIVE HE HAS WRITTEN SOME BOOKS ABOUT HOW TO BE A GOOD LITTLE LIBATARIAN> SUCH AS OWNING KNIVES< AND BUILDING BOMBS< AND HATING ON BLACK PEOPLE AND SHIT. HES PROBABLY NOT ALLOWED IN CANADA BECAUSE THEY DONT LET FUCKWITS IN (APART FROM TORONTO MAYOR- HAHAHA). I THINK IN CANADA MOST OF HIS BOOKS ARE BANNED OR USED AS TOILET PAPER OR SOME SHIT. IN CANADA IS MONTREAL. MONTREAL HAS JUST BANNED WOOD BURNERS. THAT IS A FUCKING GOOD LAW. THE LOWER 48 NEEDS THAT LAW. ALASKA IS FUCKING COLD THEY CAN MAKE THERE OWN LAWS. AND HAWAII GROWS FUCKING PINEAPPLES SO THEY"D ALWAYS BE HAPPY NO MATTER WHAT. BUT IN THE LWOER 48 IN EVERY FUCKING CITY AND EVERY FUCKING SUBURB AND EVERYWHEWRE WHERE THERE"S A HOUSE WITHIN A HUNDRED YARDS OF ANOTHER WE NEED SOME FUCKING DECENT LAWS THAT MAKE SURE THAT FUCKWITS LIKE RAGNAR BUT LIVING CLOSER TO THEIR NEIGHBORS CANT TREAT THERE NEIGHBORS LIKE SHIT.

        WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER. IF YOU DON'T FUCKIGN UDNERSTAND THAT YOU'RE A FUCKWIT.

  30. Oh hell Ragnar, it’s good in the ‘hood. Come warm yourself by the fire Peter, it’s burning and mellow. Like Rag, I have an acreage of good timber to harvest for my firewood and can’t see someone being out in the cold. Don’t like the smell, maybe your neighbors aren’t burning dry and seasoned logs. Throw in and help them, might keep you warm down the road……..

  31. Ah just a polytechnical.
    Nuff said.
    . Bye

  32. a) Our forefathers left GB to get out from under the heel of your tyrannical govt.

    b) We didn’t stupidly chop down all our forests like you did.

    c) Wood fire smoke may contain soot, but not appreciably “noxious” chemicals. If you have asthma, the only disease aggravated by particulates in the air, sit upwind of the campfire.

    d) These proposed regs do what all socialistic regs do: they de-humanize, turning all citizens into unimportant worker ants, just cogs in the gears of the machine.

    These regs put the guy living 20 miles from his nearest neighbor into the same category as the guy living in a Manhattan apartment. We don’t need laws and regulations to make us good neighbors. These regs won’t even effect those they mean to protect because city dwellers don’t generally have wood burning stoves.

  33. fas·cism
    noun \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\

    : a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government

    : very harsh control or authority

    —–

    so·cial·ism
    noun \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\

    : a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies

    —–

    the words don’t look interchangable to me

  34. EndCorruptCorporatocracy

    This asinine move by our oppressors is akin to gun confiscation or outlawing gardening, in my opinion; it is an abhorrent policy meant literally to undermine people’s ability to survive. We’re quickly running out of nonviolent solutions to the usurpation by and confiscatory, extortionist, aggressive, and fascist policies of the Domestic Terrorist Federal Government. Seriously. The hijacked, parasitic federal government is pushing us deliberately toward violent confrontation. (No wonder the EPA is already arming and training their agents in the use of firearms.)

  35. Glad they are doing this, now Rocket Mass Heaters will be quick to be approved! Everyone can burn less wood, pollute less and stay warmer. I love when they try to suppress our freedoms because then more creative solutions can take hold. Look at this as a positive, get building yours! Mine works amazing and I am in Canada.

  36. Unconstitutional ,YOOOO EPA MUST GO , Wood burning stove been around long than the EPA . FREEDOM of choice . EPA is over over reaching . EPA MUST GO .

  37. It may seem unreasonable now but if it can save just one child it’s worth it.

    • THIS IS THE SAME CRAP LINE BY TURD IN CHARGE OVER SAND HOOK. STICK IT.
      IT IS NOT ABOUT SAVING ONE LIFE, IT IS ABOUT TOTAL CONTROL OF THE PEOPLE.
      THE CHILDREN ARE USED WHEN CONVIENENT TO PUSH FORTH AN AGENDA. NO ONE BUT LOW INFO LIBTARDS BELIEVE IN IT.
      HOW COME THIS APPROACH IS NOT USED ON CHICAGO, NEWARK AND PHILLY KILLINGS??
      BECAUSE THEY SERVE NO PURPOSE WITH AGENDA 21 MANDATES OTHER THAN THE POPULATION REDUCTION THEY WANT HERE OF 125 TO 145 MILLION PEOPLE, MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD. JUST LIKE IN THE UKRAIN 80 YEARS AGO.
      EVEN YOU LIBTARDS NEED TO WAKE UP, YOU WILL BE GOING DOWN THE PIPE WITH THE REST OF US. YOU ARE TO STUPID TO REALIZED YOU ARE BEING USED, AND LIKE A CONDOM THROWN OUT AFTER THE GOAL IS ACOMPLISHED.

  38. Don’t know if anyone here realizes it, but this is the work of the natural gas lobby. You know, the guys who poison our groundwater and land with their destructive fracking and it’s related external costs.

    Wake up, the fracking lobby owns the Obama administration, that’s why they never fought for solar. Include external costs into the costs of energy from nat gas, coal or nuclear, and compare that with solar and all external costs and it’s crystal clear – solar is THE CHEAPEST FORM OF ENERGY – PERIOD!!!!

    Americans got swindled again by that slick talking fraud Obama and his criminal Obamafia!!

  39. Actually, this law is more ridiculous than anything, what are they going to do next, ban trees and mushrooms. That pollen is dangerous, and the spores can be inhaled and…

    The logic behind this law is faulty on all levels. Clearly written by whores for the nat gas industry, in other words – Obama’s peeps!

  40. Wood smoke has a huge externalised cost on the community. In Sydney, New South Wales every woodheater costs the community $2000 a year mostly in health costs. In the USA where 29,000 people die annually due to woodsmoke pollution, the cost would be so much higher because of the higher health costs.

    It is the role of any government, and it doesn’t matter if it is socialist, a liberal democracy, or a libertarian state, to protect the health and well being of its citizens. The most fundamental human right that a government should protect is the right to clean air. The scientific literature shows that wood smoke is a harmful carcinogen (causing lung, mouth and throat cancers and leukemia from the benzene – 6 times higher emissions of benzene from a woodburner than an automonbile) as well as cardiovascular disease, emphysema, sudden infant death syndrome, COPD, bronchitis, asthma. So I would support 100% prohibition on burning wood in all residential areas and closely settled rural areas. I have no qualms calling for a ban, and believing in smaller less intrusive government. Protecting clean air for all its citizens is the most important job of any government.

    It is only profound societal ignorance of the reality of the harm of woodsmoke that has our governments slow to act. Educate yourself about the harm of wood smoke pollution and then educate your community and government. Learn some more at my blog http://cleanairnz.com/ or at http://burningissues.org/car-www/medical_effects/index.html

  41. How about screw you, EPA, just try to come on my land and take it away.

    • So you want your property rights not to be interfered with? Me too, and that’s why I want my property boundaries to be protected from the chemical trespass of woodsmoke. Strong property rights and a ban on wood burning are 100% compatible.

  42. Off the grid is guilty of disinformation . They have taken stuff out of context and blown it out of proportion. All the EPA is being asked to do is bring hydronic wood boilers emissions down to EPA certified woodstoves. Right now the boiler manufacturers are ruining it for EPA certified wood stove users . Boilers need to reduce their emissions.

  43. and to make the air cleaner maybe there needs to be some better technology put in place to bring emissions in line! Gas furnaces levels and gasification of wood ? In this day in age it should be done!

  44. Wood is a renewable resource. Commercial and muncipal electricity is not, it is powered by gas, oil and coal. PV and wind generation consume minerals that are not being replaced for their manufacture, as well as fantastic amounts of energy and transportation costs (i.e. more fossil fuels to ship them around the world) that far exceed their benefits. And there is also the toxic waste and pollution associated with polymers and semiconductors.

    • And let’s not forget the nuclear waste involved too, as well as disasters like Fukushima. Is burning wood and saving fossil fuels worse than what happened at Daichi?

  45. NH live free or die!

    Woww……. Welcome to the United States of Regulations………. Might as well ban my campfires and bonfires…. Glad I live in the Northeast where this would get laughed at….. Lol

    • Actually campfires and bonfires are polluting and they definitely do not belong in residential areas where people are going to be sickened and annoyed by the smoke.

      And there are plenty of people in the northeast wanting to ban all woodburning. Montreal has just banned it and they are even requiring removing woodstoves from houses. There’ll be lots more places following Montreal’s lead. Personally I know of people in Providence, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Detroit, Ontario, Alberta, Vancouver, Nanaimo, Fairbanks, Salt Lake City, SoCal, Bay Area, Portland, Seattle, Minnesota and Brooklyn who want complete bans on wood burning, and that’s just among my North American friends. I’ve seen poll results where 70% of the population want clean air regulations. You won’t really understand it until you get an idiot psychopathic neighbor who just won’t stop. That’s why we need strong regulations, that not only ban woodburning, but criminalize it. It’s devastating to have a belligerent asshole of a neighbor who thinks they have a right to use woodsmoke as a weapon of annoyance to the point where people have to choose between killing the neighbor or moving away (I chose moving away, but sometimes I think I chose the wrong option). There was no legal redress. He got to be an asshole, and he got away with it. He should have been imprisoned to protect society. The law is weak, and it should be strengthened.

      If woodsmoke caused no harm, and it caused no annoyance then yeah it’d be fine, but the smoke is toxic. It causes cancers among a dozen other diseases. It stinks. It is unpleasant. It is super annoying. It stops people enjoying the liberty of their own gardens. It forces people inside with the windows shut. It takes away other people’s freedom. That is why true libertarians support bans on woodburning. The right to clean air is the most fundamental right. Conversely woodsmoke is a form of assault.

      Government fails us all when it allows air pollution to occur.

      • Matty –

        Your acting like a whining ass. If I want to burn wood at my home, I’m going to. No idiotic government regulation imposed is going to cause me to stop.

        This is America.

        “Loyalty to the country always, loyality to the government when it deserves it.”
        – Mark Twain

  46. “Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do.” -President Ronald Reagan 1981

    TRUST YOUR GOVERNMENT

  47. So, let’s see if I have this straight: I move out into the country in the middle of fly-over country, take some wood and burn it to keep warm and the feds come and get me. Right? I mean…. I understand its antisocial to want to live in the country and on that basis alone the DHS should be allowed to get the NSA’s record of my internet traffic — I’m a Reasonable Man that way — but really… isn’t this a little Extreme of the feds?

  48. People have been burning wood for the last few millenia. If you burn it right the emissions will be reasonable, and much of the emissions that are left breaks down fairly soon. It is of course a difference between having a lot of fireplaces in a village and have a fireplace in a log cabin in the back-country.

    Burning wood is a question of economy or even feasibility for some people. Wood is cheap – except for the labor needed to get it, other fuels may be too expensive for some people living on the limits, and a new stove may be impossible – people that uses the kitchen stove as central heating and don’t have electricity as an alternative.

    That said – it may be a good idea to set a standard for new stoves/fireplaces, but it shall also be with consideration.

    But the EPA should go out and hunt for bigger prey – like the emissions that the shipping industry produces – one container cargo ship has the same amount of emissions as the whole vehicle fleet of a state.

    • The Feds are Constitutionally permitted to get involved when there is an interstate issue that the States in question cannot practically resolve themselves. End of discussion. Everything beyond that is lawlessness on the part of the Feds.

    • The EPA should regulate all emissions, including shipping fuels, automotive emissions, industrial emissions, and yes residential wood smoke emissions.

      • It really galls you that the Iron Curtain fell, doesn’t it?

        • Wow. Ignorance. What the hell does wanting to breathe clean air and communism have in common? Absolutely fuck all.

          All this site shows is that the American education system is failing America. Plain and simple. This is where the ignorant hang out on the internet.

          “Son of Liberty” – where was my liberty to enjoy my own house and gardens when the fuckwit next door was burning wood and smoking me, my gardens and house out? You don’t know understand what the word liberty means.

          The Golden Rule – “Do unto others what they would have to do unto you.” All of you espousing free for all pollution are anti-Christian, anti-human, psychopathic, morally bankrupt, ill-educated, science denying, politically-simplistic idiots.

          • Iron Curtain countries controlled every aspect of their citizens’ lives by edict. That’s the relationship alluded to here. (You know what they say: if I have to explain it, you probably won’t get it anyways.)

            Socialism is de-hjumanizing. It makes all citizens mere worker ants with no individual freedoms. This particular regulation lumps rural dwellers with city dwellers. Nobody is harmed by smoke in the rural districts.

            You don’t like wood smoke. Many others do like it. For some of us, it brings back childhood memories of burning leaves in the fall. Heartwarming.

            That was back when we Americans had much more freedom. Young folks don’t realize how much they’ve turned over to the govt. Sad.

          • SON OF LIBERTY YOU ARE A FUCKWIT. YOU SAY SOME LIKE WOOD SMOKE. WELL THAT MEANS THEY ARE AS DUMB AS SHIT. IT CAUSES CANCER BIG TIME.

            THAT’S LIKE SAYING PEOPLE LIKE LICKING PUS AND BAQNDAGES. TECHNICALLY OK TO EACH THERE OWN, BUT THEY”D STILLBE A DUMB FUCKER TO DO SO.

            WHY ARE YOU SUCH A DUMB FUCK?

            YOU CAN BE AT ‘LINERTY’ TO LIKE WOODSMOKE BUT TAT MAKES YOU A DUMB FUCK 10 TIME OVER. I AM AT LIBERTY TO SAY THAT COZ ITS FUCKING TRUE.

            I HATE WOODSMOKE BECAUSE I’M NOT A DUMB FUCK.

  49. I think this is a good thing. The govermint only wants to keap us safe from polution. Stop whineing you dummbies.

  50. Excuse ME!!!
    How dare you people put down a generation that happens to be the reason Your alive. And also all you tree hugger’s really need to get a life. You sit and whine about anything that you feel is wrong with society but you abuse it more than anyone. This country was founded on a person being able to live and servive any way they see fit its called american freedom. this country was also built on the use of natural resources in order to manufacture goods and to heat and maintain the populations homes. If you all had your way, there would be no natural resource used because every one of them presents a certain amount of health risk and you wouldnt want any part of that. So lets stop using them all, now are ready to give up your car , your cell phone your water in your house, your food and yes even your clothes because iot takes natural resources to produce and provide all of those things and more.

    Yes there are slight risks to burning wood and anything else we do as well. Next you will want people to stop camping in the summer and not have a campfire at night. You might think you can oversee the public and the use of wood but this country is full of people that disagree with that idea and if you piss enough of us off we will fight back and all you tree huggers will not like the outcome. So live your lives and leave the rest of us to do the same, and quit trying to tell me how to live mine and what i can and cant do with my own body and my life. if you want to live in a protected bubble then your buisness, but i personally like the smell of burning wood in the fall and winter when the fireplaces are burning and it has never effected me at all medically. our community has a fireplace in most of the homes and they are used regularly and we dont have any problems here. You might live if a very populated area where all your dam vehicles couse alot of smog, but we dont so if you dont like the quality of your air where you live move. like to the middle of the ocean on a plastic raft. because we are all tired of you idiots trying to change our great nation and the liberties that we are entitled to. Basically If you dont like it here GET OUT!!!!!!

    • And Matty T you are polluting my computer and the internet so you should be banned and legislated also.

    • Oh Please-Much of the root of the problem with those supporting the Fed/EPA tyranny is that they have made a god out of government: Our Father which art in Washington: deliver us from evil, give us this day our daily bread. Not slamming them, but they are blinded and looking for government to be their daddy to provide for and protect them.

      But our Founding fathers warned us that when when the government gets increasingly big enough to even attempt that (for it cannot and will not succeed at playing god) that government will be a tyranny.
      Believe it was Jefferson who said basically “when all the power in our nation is centralized in Washington, that government will be worse than the government we broke away from.” And believe it was him as well who said that “the government that is big enough to give you all you need is big enough to take away all your freedoms.”
      Sadly those who worship this false god are oblivious to the lessons of history and our our march toward tyranny in the name of doing good.

      • And what has your analysis of history and political science got to do with the physical reality that wood smoke is poisonous and causes cancer?

        There are some parts of the real world that we have to grow up and deal with.

        There should be limits to what people can do. Just as you can’t punch a stranger in the street, you shouldn’t be able to pollute the air they’re got to breathe.

        People should be at liberty to breathe clean air. If you don’t belive in that you don’t believe in liberty.

        • dudethatjustputanotherlogonthefire

          you are not getting my wood stove. If I need a new one and cant buy one, I will make one. I will burn wood. Deal with it.

          You dont even realize that you are just a tool of fascism.

          Who benefits from this kind of regulation? Energy companies that produce products you need to heat your home without burning wood. If they can get the EPA to incrementally outlaw wood stoves, it is basically a incremental increase in their profits every year until everyone has to buy their products.

          Same thing with the health care. The insurance companies used government to force everyone to buy health insurance. And not just basic catastrophic coverage.

          Your intentions may be pure. But you are a tool.

          • And your neighbors? Don’t you give a damn about them?
            What about your own children? Indoor air pollution is generally half as strong as outdoor air pollution no matter what you do to try to keep the air out. You’d willingly sacrifice the health of your children to prove some stubborn point? Wood smoke is a class 1 carcinogen. Proven to cause cancer in humans. That’s the real world facts. Deal with that.

  51. Luckily, the U.S. gubment is near collapse and soon WWOL will out weigh stupid EPA, OSHA, ACA regulations.

    • THE PROBLEM WITH THE GOVERNMENT IS THAT LIBATARIANS ARE DUMB FUCKS. IF ALL OF AMERICA WAS CLEVER LIKE ME THEN THERE JUST WOULDN”T BE TEA BAGGAS AND THERE WOULDN’T BE REPUBLICANBS. (REPUBLICANS ARE DUMB FUCKS) . IF THE PEOPLE COMMENTING HERE SAYING THEY WWANT TO BEATHE WOOD SMOKE POLLUTION WEREN”T SO FUCKING DUMB AMERICA WOULD BE A BETTER PLACE.

      I OWN GUNS. I’M A REAL LIBATERIAN AND I VOTE GREEN WHERE I CVAN. EVERYONE ELSE IS JUST FUCKING STUPID.

      • I HAVE READ MANY OF YOUR POSTS SCOMP.
        YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT A TRUE LIBERTARIAN IS OR ABOUT ANYTHING IN GENERAL..
        FROM YOUR SENTENCE COMPOSITION I SAY YOU ARE AN INCOMPETENT ASSHOLE WITH A MINIMUM OF EDUCATION, PERHAPS EQUAL TO A BEET.
        I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU STAY AWAY FROM ANY GUNS THAT WILL KILL, YOU ARE A CANIDATE FOR A DARWIN AWARD MOST ASSUREDLY.
        ACCORDING TO YOU, EVERYONE ELSE IS STUPID, GAWD! YOU MUST BE THAT THING IN THE WHITE HOUSE OR HIS BROTHER.
        SO YOU WOULD SHOOT WOOD BURNERS? OTHER PEOPLE HAVE GUNS TOO ASS HOLE, PERHAPS YOU ARE ALSO THE BEST SHOT IN THE WORLD. YOU KEEP THINKING IT AS A 173GRAIN BOATAIL PASSES THROUGH YOUR VEGITATED HEAD AT 2700FPS.
        I DON’T KNOW HOW OLD YOU ARE, HOWEVER IT IS TRULY AMAIZING SOMEONE HASN’T CAPPED YOUR IGNORANT LOUD MOUTHED ASS YET. SAD THEY HAVEN’T MADE A GENERAL ASS HOLE SEASON, YOU WOULD MAKE A GOOD WALL HANGER EVEN IF YOU ARE DICKLESS.
        DON’T SIT DOWN WITHOUT TAKING YOUR GLASSES OFF FIRST, THEY WILL GET BROKEN IF NOT REMOVED.

  52. I guess it’s back to stoves made from old 55 gallon drums.

  53. Eveyone ranting about the EPA rules is ranting about things not – NOT – in those rules. EPA intends to affect the manufacture and sale of wood stove types, not to make any changes in the presently installed base of heating stoves.

    This is exactly how they reduced the pollution from automobiles – requiring manufacturers to engineer engines so that pollution is greatly reduced. Of course, the same people were outraged back in the 1970s when lead was banned from fuel. Even though their children were suffering from lowered IQ and distorted thinking caused by higher levels of lead from fuel additives.

    Amusingly, the leaded fuels were necessary to allow engine manufacturers to save money on their engine production lines, to enhave their profits.

    Now that fuels are no longer leaded, the crime rate is plunging – terrible, terrible.

  54. Quick question. Can I assume that all of you in favor of the Government controlling yet another aspect of our lives i.e. second-hand smoke from fireplaces and wood burning stoves, will put your joints out when a non-smoker is in your immediate area so they don’t have to suffer from the effects of it’s second-hand smoke? Just asking.

    • Smokers are stupid pricks who pollute their immediate environment with no care for the wishes of those people around them.

      So yep I’d support bans on smoking in public places.

      The science supports bans on both tobacco and wood smoke.

      There does that answer your question?

  55. I’ll use myself a rocket mass heater to not emit anything at all and bypass this kind of pressure ! here is some info about what rocket mass heaters can do : http://launch.studiomelies.com/

  56. Rocket Mass Heaters are not proven to be non-polluting.

    Until tested they can be assumed to be as polluting as any other fireplace.

    All these “clean” wood burning technologies so far have proven to be snake oil.

    Does snake oil burn cleaner than wood? Gas does? Natural gas is 1000 times cleaner in terms of particulate pollution than wood. If the so called “clean” wood burners aren’t 1000 times cleaner than normal wood burning they are still dirtier than gas.

  57. The responses supporting this Federal ban presume that the entire population lives in densely populated areas.

    What ever happened to minority rights?

  58. There are no “rights” anymore. George Orwell was a great prophet with a bad calendar.

    No rights are left anymore, just ‘privileges.’

    Don’t be so smug, lefties- you are so happy setting up an all-powerful ‘benevolent’ dictatorship.

    Unfortunately, the time comes – and it will – that this ‘benevolent dictator’ will eventually turn the keys to the candy store over to someone you really aren’t gonna like.

    • These high-handed, smug, overbearing lefties won’t get it, even when they wind up looking at the world the wrong way through a razor wire fence. Put there, I might add, by the very same elitists that they’re voting and applauding into power. They don’t think that the consequences of their very bad ideas apply to them. Nothing could be further from the truth. History is my witness.

      • Yes, the useful idiots (as Lenin called them) never are smart enough to realize that they will be the first to be eliminated after they have helped the elites gain total power.
        They are the sheeple who insist that everyone be disarmed for the convenience of thugs and tyrants.

  59. This indigestible meal of one part insanity with one part tyranny reminds me of Good ole Tom Jefferson’s remark: Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God. Sounds like we may need to dust off our muskets-just in case.
    But for now, freedom loving people should flood the Excessively Puking Arrogance department(EPA) with email, calls, faxes and letters of protest. Time to put a stop to the biggest polluters-the Government polluting our once air of freedom land with the fumes and exhaust of tyranny. These bureaucrats think they are god and have a right to trample on the people and our freedoms.

    Also if someone could find the contact info for such correspondence and post on here for us all to rise up knowing for now, “the pen is mightier than the sword.” even if it’s on a PC or MAC.
    And hopefully, enough people will also file a big class action lawsuit against the tyrants.

    • Thomas Jefferson also said that democracy of the people was the best form of government there was as long as the people were educated.

      A little education amongst the readers of Off the Grid would go a long way.

      • I think you are referring to a quote Churchill in turn quoted to the effect”democracy is the worst form of government except all the rest.” But the founders made clear we have a Republic or representative form of government. But the current form of government is anything but representative but is increasingly imposing their ironclad will on the people denying their freedom more and more and so is increasingly dictatorial. The people have less and less say, and indeed have had no say, and would likely oppose this dictatorial decree from on high in Washington. The Founders made clear that our nation was based on self government or as Madison the main father of the constitution put it, “the ability of the people to govern themselves according to the Ten Commandments of God” ie people would have internal control according to God’s loving laws given to create a healthy blessed society rather than the ironfist of a big government ruling over the people as we increasingly have. Or another way, people would do right because they chose to because they are free and obey God and love neighbor, not because some tyrant tells them to do what is right.

        Matty, before you condemn the readers of this site about education, you might consider reading some non-revisionist history including the statements of the Founders on the nature of our freedoms-which again this dictatorial decree is completely contrary to. God bless you.

        • “Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves, therefore, are its only safe depositories. And to render them safe, their minds must be improved to a certain degree.” Thomas Jefferson.

          • Thanks for proving my point Matty. We either have government of and by the people or government by dictatorial rulers as Jefferson said in your quote.
            Here is another one by Tom J: “My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.” Thomas Jefferson
            But again education does not consist in disdain or condescension towards those you disagree with but rather gaining knowledge AND understanding AND WISDOM (a rare commodity largely lacking in today’s educational system and universities) based on solid facts of things like history, the Constitution and our unique form of government and freedom. Again I would encourage you to read books that simply let the Founders speak for themselves. God bless you.

          • And “for the people” means protecting the air that people breathe.

            Polluting the air that people breathe with nasty chemicals is morally the same as polluting the water supply with nasty chemicals and you’d be called a terrorist if you deliberately did that.

            The EPA is only doing a bad job because it is failing to protect the environment enough.

            Woodsmoke is too poisonous and causes too much ill-health for it not to be prohibited in residential areas. We’ve established you don’t believe in liberty and property rights if you deny the right to clean air to others so that they have the liberty of living without harassment in their own homes.

            True patriots believe in banning wood burning.

      • after reading through this thread I have concluded that Matty T is an absolute ass.
        you are wrong on so many of your reply’s that it is laughable

        you stated: “Thomas Jefferson also said that democracy of the people was the best form of government there was as long as the people were educated.”

        WRONG!, Thomas Jefferson did NOT like the idea of a democracy,
        he and the other founders knew better!

        democracy is just one step away from Socialism

        America was not created as a Democracy,
        it is a REPUBLIC with a democratic voting process.

        The difference is that a Republic upholds our individual rights,
        but in a Democracy all you need is a majority to vote your rights or property away.

        Democracy = 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner!

        In Federalist No. 10, James Madison, often referred to as “the father of the Constitution,” said, “Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they are violent in their deaths.”

        Chief Justice John Marshall observed, “Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.”

        – Thomas Jefferson said: “The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society.”

        – Alexander Hamilton concurred. In a speech he gave in June 1788, urging ratification of the Constitution, he thundered: “The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity.”

        – At the 1787 Constitutional Convention, Edmund Randolph said, ” . . . that in tracing these evils to their origin every man had found it in the turbulence and follies of democracy.”

        – John Adams said, “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There was never a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.”

        matty t also thinks that it is the governments job is to keep us safe,
        BULL CRAP!
        the the government’s main duty is to PROTECT OUR LIBERTY

        You think burning wood is bad,
        I read a lot of history and the Colonial people lived very long lives,
        all that they had to heat with was wood.
        I burn wood and most days you can walk outside and not smell it,
        on a bad draft day you may but overall I think it is far less harmful than breathing
        the carcinogens produced from oil burning furnaces (most furnaces are less than 80% efficient)

        Gas on the other hand is a very polluting product if you look at the whole picture,
        10’s of thousands of acres have been poisoned via fracking
        fracking fluids are 100’s of times more carcinogenic than the whiff of smoke that you may inhale from someones wood stove.

        or you Electric that you may heat with may come from a Nuclear facility
        or a gas or coal burning plant,
        all you have to look at is Fukushima to see the bill of goods we have been sold
        as the EPA touted the safety and cleanliness of Nuclear

        There is no doubt matty T,
        you are a narrow minded Libitard!

        • And a million times smarter and more aware than you.

        • It seems to me that Matty has a very personal problem with the burning of wood and wood burning stoves.

          If anyone were to have a problem with wood burning stoves, it would be me. My house burned down, my mother and brother died in that fire. But I do not have a problem with wood burning stoves.

          As Joe very plainly stated, wood burning is less dangerous to our health than what is currently being used for heating our homes.

          I know, next Matty will want any type of heating banned cause it is so bad for us.

          Like I said before, you will never get rid of everything that you think is bad for you matty. So go build yourself a bubble house and leave us alone.

        • Thomas Paine stated, “Democracy is the vilest form of government”

  60. I guess the government is going to ban forest fires, volcanos and other natural disasters because of air particulate matter that may be in excess of EPA requirements.

    • Last time I looked, in for instance, Pittsburgh, there weren’t any volcanoes or forest fires, yet Pittsburgh and suburbs would benefit hugely if the air was cleaner by banning wood burning, so your argument is a bit silly really, isn’t it?

      • HempRopeAndStreetlight

        How about we just hang you – that ought to cut a substantial amount of useless carbon.

        • So you’ve lost the argument. You can’t justify your behavior on any moral or scientific grounds.

          People don’t like the smoke, and say they don’t like the smoke, and you ram it down their lungs against their wishes (which is assault). The smoke causes cancer, heart attacks, stroke, emphysema, etc, etc. Wood smoke kills 29,000 Americans each year. It inflicts huge economic costs of over $2000 annually per stove on the community. There are health, social justice and economic reasons to phase out wood burning in residential areas.

          You lose all those arguments and you resort to threats of violence, including murder. Threats of violence are a criminal offense, which makes you a criminal. Please tell me your name and address so you can be arrested which will make your community safer.

          You have nothing. You have lost the argument. All that anyone does here whinging about lefties, or progressives or whatever, doesn’t help your cause (your cause being to keeping the rights of people to pollute, over the rights of people to breathe unpolluted air). I can just say that this site harbors some of the least credible, least educated, sociopathic morons on the planet.

          Going on about government, blah, blah, blah, when I bet (since you’d probably be unemployable) you’re all on welfare checks anyway.

          Good day to you sir, and keep your anger under control.

          • HempRopeAndStreetlight

            The argument has yet to be had Sandbag.

            You’ll be one of the first to know when we start.

          • Come on, name and home address please Sir. You threatened to hang me with a rope. I’d like to report you to your local police officers. You should explain your threats in front of a judge.

            Or are you too much of a coward?

  61. EPA out of my cold dead hands…

  62. Screw Obamas government and the EPA!

  63. Not a city dweller

    Good grief…….so they would rather have us use some form of taxed oil product it heat our homes that are out in the country ?? It’s just more control and move toward government controlled product to keep from freezing when the brush and tress outside my home will grow out of control to just give wildfires more fuel to destroy acres and acres of land .
    Or better yet…how about some big big taxed truck delivers all that taxed product gathered delivered by taxed trucks to a taxed factory using taxed resources made by thousands driving taxed cars to work to produce the taxed energy produced in taxed mega factories to be delivered back to taxed customers just to heat their homes. That’s if your big taxed truck would even deliver to our land on a dirt road out off the grid !
    And geeze how many peeps are sticking their heads in their chimneys and drinking the koolaid. Sometimes folks its apples and oranges .

    • Not a city dweller

      Oh yes, I seem to have forgotten about the stove/fireplace you have to buy to replace your one that works perfectly fine ……you know the one produced with the taxed materials delivered on the taxed truck……..sing along with me .

  64. Not a city dweller

    Oh yes…..while we are at it….many of those folks using firewood to heat their homes away from the city are producing food for people who choose to live in an over crowded city….then we won’t even have to have a discussion about who is needing to keep warm in the winter. People in the city don’t have one clue where all their food comes from……and I apologize in advance for starting a whole new argument .

  65. JHC! People have been burning wood for nearly as long as humans have been on earth.

    These people need to get a life so they can leave everyone else’s life the f alone.

    • Well I wish my neighbors had left me alone and hadn’t smoked me out of my house with their stinky wood fire.

      To get a life, unmolested from my stupid neighbor, I had to move home.

      My life and liberty were threatened by the woodsmoke. True freedoms must be enjoyed by all or they are not freedoms at all, they are tyranny. Woodsmoke is tyranny.

      • You cannot get rid of every single thing on earth that you people “think” is dangerous to you.

        People like you are trampling all over our freedoms. It has been one thing after another. And you want to talk about tyranny.

        You and your kind will never be happy. Never! Go live in a bubble somewhere and leave us alone.

        • What do you mean think is harmful to me? Sorry, it is know is harmful to me.

          Start learning about the proven, undeniable science of the toxicity of woodsmoke here:

          http://burningissues.org/car-www/science/table2.htm

          Ignorance is not the basis for good policy.

          • so you do not ever ride in an vehicle that uses fuel? do you purchase any products that require shipping via motorized vehicle? where does your food come from? what do you use for heat? do you use electricity? You yourself pollute the “clean air”, I will bet, everyday. You cannot cherry pick. If you believe wood smoke should be banned please then stop polluting the air in all ways that you do and then maybe we may take you seriously. Fact is your panties are in a wad because you had an asshole for a neighbor and now you are trying to be a vigilante against everyone who uses a wood stove out of necessity. Get off your high horse and come back down to reality. You know the reality where most wood burning folks burn wood out of necessity, not for shits and giggles. I can think of far more better things to do with my time than splitting 6 cord of wood every year to stay warm in the winter, it is much to hard of a job to do just to piss off a busybody. I don’t burn wood to piss off my neighbors I burn it so I won’t freeze in the winter. If you really analyze your life and daily routines I am sure you will find there is plenty of things you do on a daily basis that affect members of your surrounding community, or are you that perfect?

          • NICOLE,

            GET WITH THE FUCKING PRGRAM.

            IT IS THE SCALE OF THE POLLUTION THAT IS THE ISSUE. WOOD BURNERS POOLLUITE HUNDREDS OF TIMES MORE THAN FUCKIGN AUTOMOBILES.

            I COULPDN”T GIVE A FUCK IF MY NEIGHBOR DRIVESA A TRUCK. (HE DOESN”T HE DRIVES A PRIUS COZ HES A FUCKING HYPOCRITE) BUT I DO GVE A FUCK ABOUT THE WOOD SMOKE. IT IS HUNDREDS OF TIMES WORSE THAN A PICKUP.

            WOOD SMOKE CAUSES CANCER IN FUCKING LARGE AMOUNTS.

            STUPID PEOPLE DON”T KNOW THAT> THAT”S WHY WE NEED TO PASS LAWS TO CONTROL AIR POLLUTION.

            SO DON”T TELL THIS GUY TO PISS OFF. GET YOUR FUCKING OWN SHOW IN ORDER.

            HANDLEBAR DUDE KNOWS WHAT HE”S TALKING ABOUT.

      • Not a city dweller

        This whole issue is so odd . I’ve lived here in this small town (pop 30k in southern calif for over 50 years ….yup small by Ca standards ,but still remnants of an agricultural town . I’ve never ever even heard anyone complain about a neighbors fireplace…..ever

        • So. You’re ignorant of all the people who have complained. What does that prove?

          There are hundreds of blogs on the internet talking about this very issue.

          Many, many people have moved house to get away from it.

          Then there are the stories of people who have sued neighbors. Some have been successful. There have been $100,000 awards to the people who have been smoked out. It is not a trivial matter. Many people find their recourse is severely limited. They complain. They get ignored. They get frustrated. They consider legal action. They move. Sometimes they fight back and pour concrete down chimneys and things. ANd then there are some who just get terminal illnesses and die.

          A whole lot of shit goes down because of wood burning. It’s nasty community destroying stuff.

  66. HempRopeAndStreetlight

    The only good Prog is a dead prog. You’ll get my stove the same way you’ll get my guns – hot, dirty, and empty.

  67. This story is written in an inflammatory way. It appears EPA is requiring NEW stoves to be clean. The “ban” is that old style stoves that allow for excessive pollution can’t be sold any more. EPA is not coming into people’s homes to remove old stoves, but when you buy a new one, it will be much cleaner than an old one. Seems like common sense to me.

    • The irony is that new ones aren’t much cleaner than old ones.

      • So the whole argument here is whether new wood stoves should be marginally cleaner than old wood stoves? Reading these comments, you’d think the UN was going to occupy the US to give everyone socialized medicine. I will go out on a limb and say, yes, new wood stoves should be marginally cleaner than old woodstoves. Thank you EPA.

        • Yep. It is frustrating because the EPA knows that something must be done about the emissions from wood burning appliances because the emissions are poisoning people, but then they put there faith in the manufacturers complying with emissions standards. Laboratory testing is one thing, but real world emissions are another. Studies in Australia and New Zealand have shown that real world emissions of woodburners on their markets are always higher than claimed laboratory emissions.

          Still limiting the emissions of outdoor wood burners is a good first step. In the long run (well in the short term too) it won’t be enough. All wood smoke mitigation schemes involving new heaters for old have failed in the real world. See info on Libby, Montana at http://woodsmoke.3sc.net/new-woodheaters-pollute In Libby they saw a small drop in particulate pollution of about 27%, but 72% of old wood fires were replaced with new wood fires, and 28% were changed to pellet, oil, gas or electric.

          Not going to a straight ban on woodburners, by going through the intermediate steps of trying to have “cleaner” burners that aren’t really clean is time wasting. 29,000 people in the US die each year due to wood smoke.

          New policy is needed, but they should also be measured for effectiveness. So far the US EPA is far behind world’s best practice. It should have the political courage to do the right thing and ban woodburning in all residential areas.

    • dudethatjustputanotherlogonthefire

      oh… so if i like my stove i can keep my stove? lol do you hear yourself when you write?

      • If you read the article, you’ll see that, unless you live in a state that has explicit regulations to the contrary, the regulations apply to *new* stoves.

        Puget Sound, Washington, is one exception because of it’s extremely high pollution levels. I believe that they still let you use old stoves on days when the wind blows the pollution away. But they require people who can use other forms of heating to do so on days when the pollution would otherwise build up to toxic levels.

  68. To Freeze or NOT to freeze??? I’m burning wood in my stove, end of story!

    • Sounds good! And if you ever buy a new wood stove, it will be marginally cleaner than your old stove. We can all thank EPA for that.

  69. MATT T is a effing retard. People need to stay warm. With all the other stupid shit the government attacks did you expect it not to come to this. I say if your cold burn whatever you need to burn to stay alive, if its wood or tires who cares. Eff your neighbor especially if it was that matt t.. douche.

    • Geez. Thanks for the endorsement. Just because I am not one of your stupid, don’t understand the meaning of the word libertarians who has contrarian views you have to be come belligerent and bullying. The thing is though that I am right, and all you guys are wrong. What comes out of your chimney is the business of everybody else. It ain’t socialism, or anything else to insist that cancer causing much doesn’t come out of your chimney. It is good manners.

      I think you have definitely proven my point. Only dickheads burn wood.

      • People who annoy me cause me stress and that leads to cancers, hypertension, diabetes, stroke, heart attack.
        I can make the case that Matty should be eliminated for the health and well-being of all.
        Put my political party in power and give me the power of an enforcement agency that can enforce the “studies” done by my bought and paid for universities and I will have Matty eliminated for the good of society.
        See how easy this is?

  70. You tell em Ragnar, I have some of you books and love them.

  71. dudethatjustputanotherlogonthefire

    Molon Labe

  72. Just another “git whitey” act by the black administration. Of course, the EPA does nothing to stifle the heating systems preferred by Obama’s People: back-alley trash can fires — which release much worse toxins into the air.

  73. @Matty T,

    Molon Labe.

    In case you don’t do Greek, that means “Come and take them”.
    And I made up an emoticon, just for you… can you tell what it is?

    ..|.

  74. LMAO…..
    I love how liberals try to control everything you do by spouting statistics that 1 set of doctors says are accurate when you can go talk to another set of doctors and they say the exact opposite. The fact is that until the statistics are stated by 100% of the doctors the EPA should not be making rules and/or regulations.
    And since 100% of the doctors will never agree this would effectively neuter the EPA. Problem solved.

    • No it isn’t. That leaves the problem of the real figures of disease incidence and the real figure of deaths caused by the pollution. Just because some ignorant doubting Thomas doesn’t believe something, doesn’t make those figures any less real.

      Scientific data isn’t some crazy conspiracy theory designed to take away anything you hold dear. They are facts. And even if there is some doubt in the size of the error bars, it doesn’t make them any less fact. And if policy isn’t based on fact then it is based on fantasy.

      So you want to live in a fantasy world. Fine, except your actions will directly affect those living in the real world. So your view of the world is broken and you should leave policy to smarter people than yourself.

      • “So your view of the world is broken and you should leave policy to smarter people than yourself.”

        typical liberal…”I’m the smartest person in the room, because I repeat all the crap I overheard at a cocktail party, even though I have no real world experience in anything, and I haven’t learned a damn thing from history ”

        we’re already smuggling guns and standard capacity magazines to those afflicted with hoplophobic legislators, next we’ll be smuggling woodstoves to those who are cold. the free market finds a way. all your bans do is make it more expensive, and make people like us rich. apparently you have learned nothing from other bans in the past, like prohibition.

        • Yes, despite all of it’s repeated failures, they have faith in the machinery of big government control and central planning … If only we allow THEM (the elite, the anointed ones) to manage the controls, the machine will operate “properly.” (And if we don’t obey them, they will inevitably send men with guns to enforce their will on us.)
          Bullshit. They are psychopathic, sociopathic egomaniacs.
          Let them send the men with guns, but I hope they bring a bunch of body bags, because I neglected to include those in my preps and I’ll need something to wrap their carcasses in.

  75. Is Matty T a government troll? Sure seems like it, as nobody else has that much time to defend the EPA. Take my stove from my cold, dead hands, and to hell with the neighbors, especially if they are Matty T. type collectivists.

  76. THESE people are the descendants of the flatearthers.They tell us that modern man has been around for 100,000 years or more with fire almost from the beginning, but smoke has apparently suddenly become so highly toxic thats we should die from freezing rather than use fire. What they don’t tell you is that the amount of super-fine particulates is almost negligible in wood smoke,at least when compared to autos,dust from gravel roads and quarries,trains,etc,and far worst of all, planes.ONE cross country plane trip will release more carcinogens and dangerously fine particulate matter than a whole community will produce in YEARS driving gasoline autos and burning wood for heat. When they give up(not make more expensive to reduce traffic,GIVE UP!)their planes,we can have a more serious conversation about me giving up a wood stove.Until then,they can kiss my askx. This is the same brilliant science that told us that bacon was one of the chief causes of cancer.Turns out they were feeding the test mice(of a strain prone to cancer as I understand it!)NOTHING BUT BACON and and stuffing so much of that in that obesity was what was really killing them. Thats largely what we have as educated “betters” these days.After you educate a retarrdo,they will never realize they are retarrdos.Thereafter they will always believe that anyone who disagrees with them is stupid. For the few people at this level of decision making who aren’t stupid,this is really and only about CONTROL.This is what you get when Tyrants have accumulated enough useful idiots.Get used to it.Useful idiots are at an all time high.

  77. Those people are on CRACK!!! just saying, Come tell me I cant light a fire in my stove or have a burn pile in my yard!!! I dare you!!

  78. I have had the feeling for a very long time now that the “love anything the govt says” types will not be happy until we are all living in about 50 sq. ft. per person in some hell hole of a rabbit warren located in cities just full of crime, but all “obeying” the rules and regs of a benign govt that is all perfect.

    They loathe people of independence who live and prefer rural areas where they can associate with the people they like and let the rest of them go hang. Fortunately I am old enough that I won’t live to see the fulfillment of that idiocy

  79. It’s black, it’s natsy looking and not good for your health, so is obama let’s ban him.

  80. So, at what point do you say enough? The EPA needs to be told to go pound sand; publically and forcefully.

  81. Fastinating, and how do they intend to enforce THIS?

    “Excuse me sir, we noticed you have a chimney and would like to inspect it’s source”.

    Me, “Screw Off and get a warrant”.

    Them, Clueless . . . What are they going to do, sit around my house with a micro particle counter trying to find out if I’m burning wood or not. And how about shit burning stoves, are those banned? A shit burning stove can put out alot of heat, but I don’t see THOSE mentioned, and what about GARBAGE burning stoves, or whale oil burning stoves, or better yet, grass cuttings burning stove, two problems at once, leaves and grass, and fuel for the fire.

    The Obama administration continues to grasp at every aspect of American life. So they will abuse the rule of law to the point where no one respects it, which is exactly what they want so President Obama can put down the riots he’s been inciting and declare himself dictator for what’s left of his life.

  82. I find it upsetting that people attack non-conservatives in these threads with the assumption that we are the borg with one group mind. I’m a social liberal that has owned my own business for 24 years. I make my own power with solar. I burn wood as needed that I cut and split myself. I have my own weapons for self defense of the home. I grow about a third of my own food and could increase it to 100 percent if needed. I’ve take care of my friends, family and neighbors. I vote and call my senators and voice my beliefs on issues. I have emergency supplies for disaster relief. I don’t trust the government at all and I don’t let them divide my attention. Conservatives seem to be so caught up in hate of “the other side” that they can’t see they are both on the same side. If you don’t like the oil companies use less gas and look for alternatives. (Yes we have 2 prius to save money and not pay the oil companies, obviously pinko liberals) I use solar so I am self sufficient and can be out from under control of the power company. I have my own well and septic. I try to fight the bankers and the mil and billionaires that I see as the force that controls the conservatives, making them spend there time and energy hating rather then fixing. Get your hackles up if you want, but there are a lot of world views and a lot of reasons for things that aren’t on Fox news. That whole conservative media bubble is just to divide us. I want smaller government, less regulation (but not for the sake of oil companies and the mega-rich). I want fracking stopped. Stop hating and start looking around at other points of view and take a moment to understand. It’s easy to just listen to views you want to hear because your trained that way, but if you except the two party bullshit and think its about hating liberals for trying to live differently then your already being controlled by the government. I know I drifted a bit, but this rant was pre-coffee. Good luck to everyone with whats coming.

  83. “If you like your stove you can keep it”

  84. I’ve skimmed all the comments, mostly by the whiney do-gooders, but am most impressd by those of Ragnar. Obviously a tough old bird with solid, common sense values. I lilke that he types in Caps, which I can more easily read. I have the feeling that when the gub’mint goons come for him, he will be waiting with
    both barrels primed and ready!

  85. Gonna have my fire and no one will tell me or Ragnar We can’t keep those fires going screw big gov

  86. The EPA can kiss my ass! Does the EPA tell you how bad the air is that is spewed from volcanos? It’s way worse than any wood stove but they conveniently don’t tell you sheep that. I love how they hired a whole bunch more people to be inspectors. Just what we need, more government employees.

  87. Ni one insults Ragnar Benson or tells him what to do. Or me. When the factories all shut down, I’ll stop burning wood.. except probably not, I always will. HAHA, suckers.

  88. I think you lot have admirably demonstrated that effective, practical and scientific clean air regulations can’t be left to the ill-educated, stupid and sociopathic amongst us.

    You’ve also spoken for controlling access to firearms as well, because by demonstrating that the ill-educated, stupid and sociopathic are very quick to resort to threats of violence, that laissez-faire access to guns is putting decent people at risk.

    Just by being yourselves, you guys lose all the arguments.

    • HempRopeAndStreetlight

      Yet all of the goons you’d have enforcing your police state share our ideals Prog-nazi.

      If you want our guns and stoves, you and yours will have to bleed to get them – the cops and military are made up of people like US.

      So decide now how high you want to build your throne of skulls. You’ll have to kill to get your way. We’ll ignore anything else you do.

      Your move Nazi.

      • Again the irony.

        It is the small lobed libertarians who are the ones that are the dedicated swallowers of fascism.

        You’re all small minded tools being maniipulated by rich arseholes who don’t want to pay their taxes so that not that useful to society anymore, decrepit elderly, welfare recipients like Ragnar don’t get paid much in their welfare checks, and so that there isn’t enough money to roundly educate the next generation (hence providing more dimwitted fodder). Well educated, and clever people don’t go in for the kind of nonsense you lot do. If you’re dumb and you voted exactly how the rich people wanted you to vote you are a tool of the rich. And what do you get in return for being their tool? Not a lot. Some dick shaped trinkets like rifles to play with. Big deal. What you don’t have is social justice, decent pay,good working conditions and a decent standard of living.

        I’m not a socialist since I am too rich for that, but you guys at the bottom of the heap should consider it.

        And if you noticed I am the one here sticking up for individual rights and freedoms. I am sticking up for everyone’s right not to have to breathe other people’s wood smoke. My credentials for life and liberty are the best. All of the rest of you are dumb, manipulated tools who don’t understand what life and liberty means.

        Don’t go driving on any of those socialist roads that the government built, in automobiles subsidized by government handouts, to go cash in your welfare checks that government has given you.

        No one person is a bubble to themselves, and what they do affects those around them. Wood smoke is a physical assault. If you live in a residential neighborhood, or a closely settled rural district or exurb you do not have a right to assault people with woodsmoke.

        It really is like explaining particle physics to three year olds.

        And calling someone a Nazi because they want to breathe clean air is absolutely fucking stupid. You are a disgrace.

    • You just dont get it do you, we are not stupid sociopahtic people we are amerivans and so said yes we will use our guns to protect our liberties that is our right by the second ammendment , or are you against the constiution to Matti, we do not agree with you and you philosiphies and we are aloud to do that too by the constitution. You are allowed to have your oppinion but that doesnt make your oppinion right. there are as many studies out here that say that wood buring is fine and ok for health as there are ones thats aay it isbad so you cannot just take the ones that you want o believe as total fact. no one is going to change their mind because you state an opinion or study results because those are not the only oppinions and study result to look at. So stop being an ASS and do what you think you have to but all your ranting will get you a half of a cookie if your lucky . Go live in a bubble and leave the real americans to our lives. And by real americans i mean those that support and uphole the constitution and dont ry and interfer with my liberties.

  89. less woodburning stoves=more trees left to rot on groun d=more forest fires=more homes lost=more firefighters killed=more governement in your life=more liberals happy.

  90. Matty is one of those dangerous types,the ones who are soo much smarter than those of us who actually understand the difference between real science and propaganda.I’ll bet he’s never written a computer based simulation of the results of burning fuel in a stove,extrapolated to simulate the results of a few people in the surrounding area doing the same.The negative effects are pretty insignificant.I’ll bet he’s never measured pollutants himself or noticed where pollution measuring stations have been placed for the last decade(where the highest,scariest numbers are to be found and then erroneously applied to the surrounding area).He’s an enviro-weenie with a correcter-than-thou attitude but no real knowledge that can’t be gained from reading enviro-activist drivel in a basement owned by someone else.He’s the reason sound government policy can’t be left to the ignorant trolls of the enviro-statist movement or those of their number who,without actually earning it,work as functionaries in some government agency more concerned with controlling their fellow man than helping him live the free life we are entitled to.The EPA has long been known as a place where government officials dump their crazy,unemployable relatives.Kind of like DHS now.Since leftists so rarely go outside among real people,how does he figure they are being infringed upon (health wise)by those dastardly people who take care of themselves?

    • And you’re telling me I’m stupid because I don’t understand the science.

      Oh the irony.

      The science is real and the readers of this web site are some incredibly dimwitted stupid people. I read a study about how conservatives brains are different to normal peoples where some lobe where fear was processed in the brain is abnormal. So conservatives live in fear all the time. You’re always convinced someones out to get you. You’re always believing the wrong facts, believing in things that aren’t true (and hence the crazy conspiracy theories) and not believing in things that are right.

      So I think this extreme libertarianism/conservatism (where you don’t understand the meaning of liberty nor conservation) is a form of mental retardation.

      • That is exactly your prblem matti T aall you do is read bullshit statsics all night long then have bad dreams about the air you breath go oputside go camping and try and live a normal life without some boooks influence ill bet you have never even tried to do that your mind is so set on believing everything you read that you dont have a clue to what life is really all about. MY GOD MAN GET A LIFE!!!!!

  91. Matty T,

    YES everyone is telling you that you are stupid!

    Matty T = Liberalism = the art of standing on your head and telling everyone around you that they are upside-down.

    Brought to you by…
    DemocRATS – The Party of RINOs, Liars, Haters, Corruption, limousine liberals, gimmiedats, cowards, perverts, racists, black Panthers, gang-bangers, homosexuals, prostitutes, drug addicts, illegal aliens, transsexuals, OWS moochers, welfare moms, freeloaders, and the rest of the dregs of society, all grouped together behind one fruity little narcissist.

    • No wonder the rest of America looks on at you guys with a mixture of disgust and pity, and thinks you’re all comical and effete.

    • joe you forgot the KKK also… Matty you obviously have to much time on your hands if your on here arguing with all these people… Get a job and pay taxes… Then you won’t have to ride a bike, that i’m sure you stole…

  92. so, wood burning pollutes the atmosphere… so is Fukushima NPP. I’d be more worried about the radiation heading our way, killing all the animals as it moves towards us. Sure, lets ban wood burning so we can all be radiated… idiotic liberal thinking at work.

  93. Ahh hell Matty. You seem like an intelligent person, why not turn things around ? Use your smarts to help design a wood burner that will take advantage of a renewable resource and suit your desires at the same time. No problem with having a catalytic after-burner design, if it would produce the needed heat. Things are approaching the point to where none of us will be able to afford much of anything. Why not take a look at earlier times and modify things to fit today’s needs ? Yes, I do have my own source of firewood, plus I have a small but efficient logging operation. Burnable wood isn’t really hard for the average person to acquire. What I’m saying is, instead of arguing, try and help fulfill our present-day needs.

  94. Isn’t this the same fake economy the government is always creating? By reducing the micrograms from 15 to 12 all wood burning people are going to have to replace their fireplace, insert, free standing, whatever. The industry will get a whole bunch of more sales and the government will say the economy is moving just like they did on the car trade in crap. More phoney economy. I don’t see how lowering the amount from 15 to 12 micrograms to be significant to improve the life of humans. Everyone take your complaints to your elected officials and let them know how absurd the EPA is continuing to be and, by the way, regulations are not laws.

    • Right you are D Bro. I’m a believer in wood heat, been doing it for a lifetime. Problem is that it’s going to be pushed on us like all their other donkey-crap. I’m old enough that my wood stoves will probably last for my lifetime. If they come up with something better, so be it, but I’ll use mine until they’re burnt-out.

      • Better exists. Gas is 1000 times cleaner than wood. 1000 times. That’s 1000 reasons. And reverse cycle air conditioners/heatpumps are cheaper still, and can be powered with home based microgeneration.

        It is just immoral to burn shit in a dirty manner when there are viable alternatives.

        If you have neighbors within half a mile lose the wood burner.

    • 12 or 15 micrograms, holy fuck that’s polluting. They need to be under 0.01 micrograms. Impossible with any present day technology, and unlikely with any future technology.

      Simpler to ban the dirty technology.

  95. “While EPA does not regulate the manufacture or use of wood-burning fireplaces, the agency’s
    voluntary program for fireplaces can be an effective tool to help reduce particle pollution.”

    http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/pdfs/fireplacefactsheet.pdf

    A little bit of research can show that this article is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to create fear and distrust. The Washington Times is a broadsheet created by the Unification Church considered to be a cult and possibly have ties to the KCIA the South Korean intelligence agency.

  96. Is it time for the guillotines yet?!

  97. So what I’m getting from Matty T is..he’s going to pay our fuel bills for those of us that burn wood to heat our homes? Not all of us live on the grid Matty, kind of hard to run a heating source that requires electricity to make heat.

  98. Hmmm…
    Seems like caring about the environment is at issue here. What’s the point? No one is going to do anything that conflicts with the ‘me value’. “What’s in it for me” is the chant no matter what is being done by anyone. Charity? If it did not cause you to feel good you would not give. Compassion? Same thing. If whatever I do causes me to feel bad or sick or angry or whatever I will stop doing it. Unless of course I am masochistic and enjoy self-suffering. But see? Even that gives me pleasure. For those of you who dislike following rules which help to accommodate everyone I say go right ahead with whatever you want to do. You don’t need my permission or the government’s. But don’t bitch about breaking a law that protects others from people like you and paying the price for it as dictated by society. Hell, let’s go back to burning witches!

    Murderers, rapists, pedophiles; they all have absolutely no consideration for those whom they harm or kill. Why should you be any different? If you really don’t care then why even argue your point? Your actions will define you. It is unfortunate though, that it is only after we learn what is harmful that it is almost too late. Back when we did not have cars did anyone consider how bad horseshit was in the middle of the street? Did anyone think how disgusting it was to throw night soil out the window? What finally changed? Knowledge.

    As we learn what is bad, or just unacceptable, we adapt to changes to reduce the harm. Even morality comes into play for many laws now on the books. But that is another barney. The world is, in my opinion, dying. To dispute the fact that we as a species are not contributing to its demise is like farting into the wind. You may feel better but your idea of realism still stinks. So go on and be the person you want to be for you have no choice.

    I will not defend what I do. I will not prosecute you for what you do for that isn’t “my job”. And I will not justify my actions, or inactions, to anyone. I will live my life to serve my own purposes. But I will hopefully demonstrate to my sons what little values I hold dear; one being do no harm. And if they point out the damage I have caused or will cause, willfully or not, then I will hopefully choose to do the right thing. What might that be? I don’t have to tell you. But I do have to show them.

    That we as a species can even think about consequence makes us unique. And if anyone truly believes or disbelieves any truth or falsehood then no amount of contrary evidence is going to change her or his mind. But neither will his or her belief change the consequence of acceptance or denial. We will all die anyway. Then what?

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