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It is the Best of Times…It is the Worst of Times – Episode 018

logoToday we have Doug Tjaden, author of Fool’s Gold: How the Traditions of Men Have Replaced God’s Honest Money. Doug explains how our government, by moving away from not only the constitutional responsibility that is theirs, but from God’s standard in commerce and trade, has created a situation whereby the people of the United States and the world are about to face some very hard economic upheavals.


Disclaimer: Nothing presented on this site or discussed in the podcast shall be construed as investment advice or recommendations. Bill, Brian and Doug Tjadin are not investment counselors. Each person’s situation is unique, and we urge you to perform all research and due diligence in regard to your financial situation before making any financial decision. Should you need investment advice, please seek the services of a licensed investment professional.

Off The Grid Radio
Released: October 22, 2010

Welcome to Off the Grid Radio, better ideas to bust you and your family out of today’s global control grid. Now here is today’s show.

Brian: Ladies and gentlemen, as the announcer said, welcome once again to Off the Grid News and the radio version of our show here at I am Brian Brawdy, as always along with Mr. Bill Heid. Bill I know you’ve heard this saying and you taught me a lot of them over the years that we’ve known each other but have you ever heard the saying you can’t judge a book by its cover?

Bill: I’ve definitely heard that, it’s a…

Brian: And sometimes you almost figured it was probably true, yes?

Bill: Yeah, yeah.

Brian: I’m here to say whooey and you know me, normally I would probably use some other term but whooey. Our guest today you absolutely can’t judge his book by the cover and when you first gave me the book at its title is, Fools Gold, I looked at the subtitle and it said how the traditions of men have replaced God’s honest money. I look at that and I go that’s a book I’ve got to read, very simple, right on the cover, yep got to read that one.

Bill: Well that’s a book for our time and it’s also a book that reflects our previous interview with Thomas Woods.

Brian: Absolutely.

Bill: You know, he’s basically saying the same thing maybe not digging into the biblical aspects quite as much as what Doug does in this book but he is basically saying, if you give men the traditions of man enough time, expect the worst. And look around, look at the headlines today and what do we have?

Brian: Yep, absolutely.

Bill: We have rampant, what I think again now the economist are going back and forth with respect to what they see for economic forecasts for next year but many of them including John Williams over at shadow stats who I have a great amount of respect for John who thinks that were in for hyperinflation in 6 to 9 months. John is a respected economist this isn’t some guy with tinfoil hats…

Brian: Sure.

Bill: This is a guy that really studies his stuff, provides a lot of alternative information about investing and about what the real numbers are economically. And with that in mind I want to tell you just a couple of things to set up this interview with Doug before we get started. I was looking at a report and in this report it had just some of the costs that had been going up in commodity items in 2010. So we’re thinking Doug’s book is about the medals, about silver and about gold and about you know inflation and what is going on with our current situation. Let me tell you a just little bit about some things that are going on. Consumers don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. This is an important thing, so far this year you have agricultural raw materials up 24% okay you have metal prices up 26%, coffee 45%, oranges 35%, pork – now are you ready for this one, 68%, cotton 40%, rubber 62%, and iron ore 102%. These are all items that are entering our production chain at the bottom level and eventually work their way out to consumer prices, the prices that you would find in your hardware stores, Wal-Mart, whatever in cars, whatever so what we are experiencing right now is inflation and what John Williams is saying that we are going to be experiencing as soon as next year is hyperinflation.

Brian: Well that speaks to – we did an interview earlier this year with Hank Brock if you’re ever back.

Bill: We did, we did, yes.

Brian: And got Hanks thoughts and then Jeramy help me, I can’t believe I’m going to forget his name, but our futurist that we had all not too long ago. Thank you very much Jeramy, Gerald Celente, Bill I think would echo and I think did echo the very thought…

Bill: Well Gerald’s buying gold and silver with his own money so…

Brian: Yes, but you don’t hear him forecasting that it’s going to be a lot worse and I go back to the conversation we had with Hank, where Hank goes look at they can’t let you know how bad it could truly be.

Bill: And I think they’re very worried, deep in the bowels of the Federal Reserve and at the treasury, there are very real concerns about where this could end up. This isn’t an extraction ladies and John, this is something that’s going to affect everyone and not just everyone in the United States because the dollar is the reserve currency of the world, this is going to affect everyone on the planet.

Brian: Well I think…

Bill: When this baby goes down.

Brian: I think the IMF last week was setting it up when the IMF tips its hand and says look the West is in a lot worse shape than we think it is. They’re trying to put the old lipstick on a pig, they’re trying to make it look good but when the IMF goes ehhh, I wouldn’t be waiting for the West to ride this thing out.

Bill: Everybody’s worried, the UN issued an important report – I don’t pay too much credence to the UN but in this case when the UN starts to freak out and says look there could be violence based on economic issues, obviously gets our attention.

Brian: Sure.

Bill: We think about things like this so let’s talk to Doug.

Brian: That sounds great, ladies and gentlemen and Bill – sorry Doug I know you’ve been on the line the whole time that we were just so enamored with your book. The book is called Fools Gold and I’d like to say again how the traditions of men have replaced God’s honest money. We’re here with Mr. Doug Tjaden, Doug thank you so very much for hanging out with us today.

Doug: Well, I appreciate the opportunity very much.

Brian: I really enjoyed – before give it to Bill, I really enjoyed as I said that you can’t judge a book by its cover but even down to the photos where you can see you know the dollars, you can see some silver, you can see the Bible, you can see the credit card, you just did a – and I know you don’t need my vote but you did a great job. I really do like the cover of your book as well.

Doug: Well, I appreciate that; I can’t take credit for that at all. That was a brother in Christ of mine who I just handed the title of and said use your artistic abilities to do something with this and he came back with something that I think really did capture the essence of what we talk about in the book and that is the difference between man’s money and God’s money.

Brian: Well, when you bump into him, tell him that we concur. He did a great job just having a title he nailed the picture for sure.

Doug: Yeah, I think he did a very good job of that absolutely and those are the things that I think are important for Christians to understand. I mean if we really take 2 Timothy 3:16 to heart that all Scripture is given by the inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. I have to start every interview with that because if that is not the foundation of what we talk about, if that is not the foundation for everything we do and how we analyze what is going on in the world around us then we’re starting off on a foundation that is not going to be stable. And that is one of the things that kind of led me to write this book was about seven years ago you know I got pretty alerted to all of these economic problems that were going on because of some personal struggles with what happened after the collapse and I was looking for a book that really addressed our monetary system from a scriptural standpoint and I could not find one. So you know, I kind of went to the word and did some digging and some researching got in contact with some good people who understand our current monetary system and went through a learning process and married scriptural principles with what’s happening in the world, with history which I believe is God’s revelation to us through you know how he consistently interacts with men. And this has been the product of that.

Bill: Well, Doug this is Bill, let’s go way back in the beginning and talk about you know God’s advice to Moses. This is what is most interesting me in light of what you said about all Scripture for all of life. I think that if we don’t, we’re so much agreed that there if we don’t say that the Old Testament matters and these words matter the in it’s just one guy – Ben Bernanke may have one opinion, I may have another and is just an endless amount of chatter back and forth about whose opinion might be right or wrong. But here we have something that seems to be transcendent. Here we have god early in Deuteronomy 25:15 we have God telling Moses in no uncertain terms about just weights and I want you to comment about this and just measures but the part that I like about this just like with the commandment that tales children to obey their parents because there’s a promise at the end of this okay. Here you are back in Deuteronomy 25 and God is telling Moses if you pay attention to just weights and just measures your days are going to be lengthened in the land that the Lord your God gave you so I just want you to comment on that and maybe Proverbs when he starts talking about – we’ve got a minute before the break so why don’t you comment a little bit about that and about the Proverbs where God talks about taking currency and stealing this way and making it an actual abomination.

Doug: Yeah, Proverbs 20:10 says diverse weights and diverse measures they are both alike in abomination to the Lord and there are that many things that the Bible calls an abomination so we better sit up and take notice when they do. And this idea of using money to cheat our fellow man in very insidious and deceitful ways is an abomination for the Lord and you know like you said, he told Moses in no uncertain terms that that is not acceptable. And if we honor him and use a just weight and measure then he will bless that and we’re not seeing that today. And our economic system that we see out there is crumbling around us because it cuts to the very heart and goes against these very Scriptures.

Brian: Doug, we’re going to go ahead and get back to that – I want to cover that very thought when we come back. We’re going to go ahead and take a quick commercial break, please come on back. Mr. Doug Tjaden is here with us for the hour.

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Welcome back to Off the Grid Radio, better ideas from the grid living.

Brian: Ladies and gentlemen we are back here at Off the Grid News the radio version of our show of Bill as you know right well we went to break you and Doug Tjaden the author of the book Fools Gold were discussing a term that I did not really think of it that way but when you used the word abomination – I think it’s a pretty good way to get our attention, I mean that’s not an easy word to throw around.

Bill: Exactly, as Doug said you don’t find this word too often and I think if you hear TV preachers Brian, they’re usually mad at hookers or somebody and you know some sexual sense because sexual sins in some cases are called abominations. But I don’t think you’re going to find too many evangelists late-night on TV asking for money worried about the abomination that our author is describing here. And if God says something is an abomination, it’s an abomination so…

Brian: It takes a little bit to get my attention, you know sometimes you’re throwing things across – Doug you should see him he will wad up paper and throw it at me to get my attention but that works. But that word, that’s just got to grab your attention so how about you and Doug, we’ll let you go back in.

Bill: Real quickly Doug going back to where we were, I think you just do a little exegetical work on this, I think perhaps when we read these verses what we see God telling Moses while we don’t want this honest weights and measures either at the individual level or the government level, why unjust money like printing money might be wrong is that it tears like sexual sin it tears at the very fabric of our society. Do you want to kind of pick up on that a little bit?

Doug: Well yes it’s amazing to see what happens; I mean to cultures, nations when this commandment is violated, it’s heartbreaking to see. I mean if you look at the history of nations who have gone through and played around with man’s money and debauched it and debased it and gotten it to the point where it’s finally self-destructed, the misery and the suffering that it brings to those people is tremendous. And that’s where God’s heart is and you know the effect that it brings upon his people and the people of the world. I mean when money blows up and when money dies and when men get a hold of it because of his greed and sin loses control of it, which eventually happens every time in the history of the world. Throughout monetary systems manned money has blown up, it’s died because he can’t keep his greed from taking over and the human suffering that accompanies that destruction is enormous. And that is where God’s heart aches, I mean when fathers are forced to leave the home to provide for families you see divorce and suicide and exploitation of children, all of those things that accompany that are the moral component that we should be looking at as Christian and saying if our monetary system is eventually going to put people in that kind of position we really should stand up as Christians and say this is wrong. You know people look at this from a constitutional perspective all the time and they say constitutionally our money is not, it’s unconstitutional.

Well first of for most it goes against Scripture and that’s the kind of education I think that Christians need to have so that they can stand and stand against what’s happening with a firm foundation and that’s what we’re trying to do with the book.

Bill: So back to what you said and again I think this is really profound though it’s simply mentioned in the Bible God loves us, he certainly loves the Israelites as he gave them advice on moving in but he loves us so this isn’t one of those things where he’s trying to pound your head and say you know I want to ward this over you, it’s simple advice for how to be prosperous, how to be successful and what you’re talking about I think most importantly, how not to be slaves because inevitably I would like to for you to speak to the idea as well, when you debased and debouch your currency your middle-class is eventually becomes wiped out and eventually become slaves to the state. I think that we’ve got precedent for that historically and why don’t you comment a little bit about some of the historical precedents or if anything else that you are talk about in that regard.

Doug: Well, you know you are right, we eventually become slaves to the system and our system is a debt based monetary system which I mean there’s a enough in the Bible about debt and the problems it brings so when you have a monetary system based upon debt, first of all fiat and then it’s debt based. I mean you’re heaping abomination upon abomination and 1 Corinthians 7:23 says you were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men and you know we take that very seriously. When we allow the monetary system to grow up around us and bring us into captivity and to bondage because we are now all in debt either we go into debt individually because the culture says hey that’s okay, that’s just the way things are done now or as a nation we are all entrapped in debt and future generations are because of the shenanigans that our government is playing with us in a debt based monetary system. The end is we are in debt and we are slaves to men and we are not to let that happen and those are some of the problems that we are facing now and we are having to deal with that sin.

And like you said God loves us and absolutely he does. It’s very interesting in Scripture that we see he doesn’t give us this commandment to use a just weight and measure and then not give us a mechanism by which to do that. He gives us very clearly in Scripture what we can use and that is gold and silver, I mean before the fall. He points out to Adam where there is gold, where to find it, it’s like hey Adam I’m going to tap on your shoulder here and let you know that there is something that’s going to be very important that I did in creation and you’re going to need it. And then we see the next mention of gold and silver and Genesis 13 where is says Abram was rich in livestock, in gold and silver so there’s definitely a tie there into why gold and silver are important. It’s a created element, he gave us everything we needed at the end of creation to carry out this mandate of using a just weight and measure and you know that’s a very loving God.

Bill: It is indeed and then we go the inverse of that we have the ways of man. What are some ways, I know reading history that typically you’d have coin clipping where emperors would do the very thing that our government and not just the government that is in power now but past governments. This is a Republican and a Democratic mistake so what are – we’ve got a couple of minutes here before we go to break again, what are some historical ways that this, you know before paper money and paper money since the advent of paper money that this you know kind of cheating has been going on – how are the ways of men with respect to monetary issues, how do governments cheat?

Doug: Man has been very, very devious in how he cheats others out of their wages and historically we see in the Roman Empire where you mentioned going clipping – yeah the Roman government would take coins out of circulation and just shave off little pieces of it and create another little pile of money that they would use. That’s the way they first started doing it and then they’d start funding their pet programs, military expansions and those kinds of things. Well when they got to where they really couldn’t do that anymore, they began to substitute base metals and cheaper metals with the silver and the coins. And once you had on that treadmill and men figure out that hey we can pull the wool over people’s eyes if we do it slowly it’s a path that they don’t pulled themselves off of until money gets debased to the point where it is worthless. The people figure that out and 0:22:28 law comes into effect and any good money that is out there is taken away and hoarded and saved and the bad money dries out the good money. And so we see that historically in the Roman Empire where things even with John Locke where he had a paper money system where he tried it in France and tried to pull them out of depression and had some success with it but then tried to back it with more paper and that system blew up. So historical precedent is just up and down the board on how man once they get a hold of an honest weight and measure and begin to debase it where it goes off-track pretty quickly.

Brian: Doug we’re going to go ahead and run to a quick commercial break but I would like for you to continue on that salt and your discussion with Bill right after the break. Ladies and gentlemen come on back here with Doug Tjaden of Fools Gold.

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And now back to Off the Grid Radio.

Brian: Ladies and gentlemen welcome back once again, we are here with Mr. Doug Tjaden, the author of Fools Gold and Doug before we went to the break you and Bill were discussing in terms of some of the biblical applications and I said that in the back of my mind I was going okay, we mentioned the Constitution very briefly but I wonder if you and Bill could return a little now on to talking about some of the Constitution issues. And I’m sure I do not have to tell you that one of the things that Congress was charged with was protecting, I mean there are even supposed to be there to prevent – well it’s not money laundering Bill what is the term I am looking for, counterfeiting. Well the first thing…

Bill: Well what they were doing…

Brian: That’s what they are doing Bill that’s what I thought. I go now wait a minute, I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer but: clipping, whether the Romans did it or we’re doing it now, it sounds like Congress is doing the one thing – one of the things that the Constitution charge them with protecting us from. So who’s the bad guy?

Bill: Well as Doug points out this is a tradition of men and Luther, believe it or not Brian, Luther wrote extensively about it during his life and you had the folks in charge of currency then debasing the currency and his response was hey this is a social justice issue. And a lot of times we hear the words social justice you know like what’s coming next, some liberal you don’t think someone wants to steal your money.

Brian: Yeah, but Ms. Gloria Allred is going to have a poster…

Bill: Yes, somebody wants to steal your money when they say social justice to you but listen there is a biblical social justice issue here because if you debase the currency Luther’s point was you destroy the buying power of the populace, of the people. And guess what especially the poor so what and we’ll talk a little bit about this with Doug but what I am saying is how does it help a poor family in Detroit who lost, who the father lost his job at GM and he doesn’t have a job. How is it going to help him as his money supply is falling as his income is going down that he has to spend $20 for a gallon of milk? And listen up, I am predicting $20 for a gallon of milk at some point I don’t know I’m not God I don’t know when that’s going to be but I know that the traditions of men that Doug is talking about, I know where that leads historically and folks there’s no way out of this mess. We’re in this for trillions, some say up to 40 trillion if you add all budget expenditures that we are down 40 trillion. There’s no way we can get ourselves out of this and Doug it would seem as Brian pointed out that the Constitution is buttressed up against this in a heavy way but it’s just not enough. When you’ve got the traditions of men they find a way around the Constitution. What are some constitutional issues here that have been violated by our government?

Doug: Well, our founding fathers were very obviously very well read man and they understood all of these historical problems with paper money and it doesn’t take too long if you want to just Google founding fathers and paper money and you will get some interesting quotes. I mean Daniel Webster said of all the contrivances cheating the laboring classes of mankind none have been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money. I mean the founding fathers well understood the dangers of paper money and so when they wrote the Constitution, I mean there are provisions in the Constitution that make gold and silver coin the only money that we are supposed to have. And that was supposed to protect us from this issue of debasement and if you read the documents that even surround the Constitution that were written to support the principles of the Constitution – the Coinage Act of 1792 is one of them and it is very interesting in there that you read that when they talk about this issue of debasement it says specifically every such officer or person shall commit any or either of the said offenses which they were talking about embezzlement and debasement shall be deemed guilty of felony and shall suffer death. They took this issue of debasing money very, very seriously and yet because we see the principle of sadly Ecclesiastes 8:11 coming into play which says because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

We see over time that man will push the envelope out a little bit and say well we are going to take this principle and we think we’ve got a better idea so we’re going to move the line a little bit further out. Well our God is loving, he’s long-suffering, he’s merciful, he cares for us, he wants us to continue to come back to him but when we violate a principle and we aren’t immediately punished for it we take that as a license to say oh well I guess he doesn’t care and this is okay and we just keep moving that out and out further until we have a tradition of men that have come in and made the word of God no effect. And that’s where we run into some real problems and were seeing those in our monetary system now.

Bill: Well, it looks like there’s no end in sight as we – as I look at my computer today gold is up $23 today and for folks listening it’s going to go up and is going to go back down but every time you see the gold price what you ought to be looking at is not that the gold’s gone up but you ought to think that gold is a stored value and has pretty much stayed the same since biblical times. It’s bought the same number of loaves of bread in Nebuchadnezzar’s day that he buys today, it’s dollar going down and that’s one of the reasons why the government, these they had pretty much hate gold because it tells – it’s a meter basically that tells the stealing story. Every time it goes up someone is cheating you. Doug do you kind of want to talk a little bit about just the idea of where we are at now with all of this and where this could go?

Doug: Well, yeah before I do that, quickly you hit on a very, very important point on an attribute of money that has long since been forgotten and that is it stored value. People see it as a medium of exchange and they understand that but this issue of it being a stored value is extremely important. And when you get into debasing money it loses that attribute and that’s the actor view that God wants to protect through giving us an honest weight and measure. And just one quick mention of the Constitution, the Seventh Amendment of the Constitution talks about suits at common law and Wednesday set this dollar value of $20 to be tried by a jury if it goes beyond $20. Well people look at this and say that’s what out dates the Constitution that’s why it’s a foolish document that we need to revise now. But if you look at the price level of the United States which is from the Fed’s own data you will see that for 150 years while we were using gold and silver money that Seventh Amendment held its applicability because the money wasn’t debased. But as soon as we went into this fiat monetary system yeah it lost its ability to be applied because man has debased the money and so where does that go from here. I mean we’re talking about some and pressing and when you hear the word unprecedented all the time in regards to this situation we’re in and I want to throw a number out there to you that you may or may not be aware of but is this issue of all the outstanding notional value of the derivatives that are in the world today and this is from the Bank of International Settlements. The total notional value is 1.1 or at one time before they started playing games with the numbers again, 1.1 quadrillion dollars. Now that is a number that should be used only for measuring the expanse of God’s universe and his creation. It should not be used to describe a monetary aggregate but that’s where we are today. And that alone should give people an idea of the seriousness of the problems that are out there. When you’ve got that kind false paper money that’s been built up around the world, it doesn’t take very much of it to cause a problem and the whole system implodes.

Bill: Well, we went through this in the late 70s and early 80s when Jimmy Carter was failing in a horrible way as president we saw a total disbandment but this is and we got through that only after $800 gold, $850 gold and you know 17 or 18% interest rates. Now 18% interest rates today would totally buckle the mortgage business if you had fluctuating rates and things going up that high again but right now we’re and as we go into the next year is there anything that you can see – and again were not God but is there anything you can see that could come to act against this, you know is there any saving grace short of a default on this?

Doug: Well, no there’s two ways historically that governments default when they get in these positions. One is an hour I default and that is a huge deflationary event and the other is to just print money and hyper inflate the currency away and pay off their debt with cheap money. Either way it’s a default, one of them is technically a default and the other one isn’t and the writings by our current Fed Chairman tell us very clearly which direction he’s going. And that is to continue to print money because he believes that he can overcome deflation – well sure you can but you end up with hyperinflation and something just as bad so I don’t think there’s any way out of this. The time frames under which we hit that final hyperinflation are subject to a lot of strenuous debates. It has amazed me that they have been able to hold the things together as long as they have and so this tells me that there may be some other games and shenanigans they can play that will help them prop it up for a while longer but eventually it is going to come to an end.

Brian: Hey Doug, thank you. We’re going to go ahead and run to a quick commercial break but there is a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel if you will and that’s what I’d like for us to focus on in the next segment. We’ve got some pretty cool information for our listeners so please stick around, come on back. More with the author of Fools Gold, Mr. Doug Tjaden.

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Welcome back to Off the Grid Radio, getting you ready to prepare for the worst.

Brian: Ladies and gentlemen once again welcome back, Brian Brawdy as always with Mr. Bill Heid and today our guest, the author of Fools Gold, Mr. Doug Tjaden. And Doug you know going into the commercial break I said hey there might be a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel and as I’m sure you know our parent company for Off the Grid News is Solutions from Science so there’s a lot of times Bill and I will interview guests and we are talking about if you will, the headaches, the things that we should be worried about but we always like to dovetail and bring it back so we can actually give them a solution from science. What would be your answer to all the different things that we discussed in the opening three segments? How can people have a sense of hope and what can we start to do right now to kind of hedge against some of the things we’ve been discussing?

Doug: Well, I think we see historically a very, very strong historical precedent that silver is money. Silver is money, I mean in many cultures and languages the term for money and silver are synonymous. In the Hebrew language it’s Kesef and that is synonymous with silver as well. So if we take God at his word and we look at history and historical precedents when we’ve gotten into these situations and say okay show me from history, show me from Scripture where we can protect ourselves. What’s in that stored value that we talked about in the last segment? Silver has always been one of those store values and it’s a part of our Constitutional money as well so there’s a foundation even constitutionally for us to begin to move into that direction.

Bill: Well Doug, I think typically what happens in these defaults or inflationary situations if we look at what governments do, my guess is again and I’m just trying to get close but if you keep all of your money in dollars over the next 10 years we can’t be certain – and I’m just qualifying a little bit, you’re going to lose probably in these types of defaults historically going to lose 50 to 75% of your wealth. So think about that, everybody that’s listening. This is not an abstraction, this is not, you know we are not a dress rehearsal, this is the real deal. We’re in for it here and we’ve got ourselves into a debt situation. We are overrun with debt and we have to figure out how families can take some kind of action. And we were talking Doug at the break about you know gold and silver, how can we create a store of value that at a minimum is going to hold its value when governments turn on the printing press. What’s your perspective own gold and silver as we speak?

Doug: Well, as we look at the you know the history of hyperinflation, if we go through a hyperinflation you’ll lose more than 75% of your wealth if it’s in paper. You could very well lose it all if they interrupt that somewhere along the process and institute some other kind of currency which they may do as well. You’re steel going to see a very, very significant devaluation where you see that 75% devaluation as a possibility. So you look at it historically what has made it through those times and it has been hard assets and precious metals and gold. And gold and silver have always maintained over time that store value. We like silver better than gold the calls as we talked over the break the gold and silver ratio favors that today. Historically you have a gold and silver ratio of about 16 to 1 that is 16 ounces of silver will buy 1 ounce of gold. Well right now that’s around 60 so if both metals moved up and that ratio trends back to its historical norm you’ll see silver rise at a rate much faster than that for gold. So that’s one of the reasons we favor silver in this mix, it’s very volatile because you know man plays games with the paper dollar figure what that price is but over time I think we’re going to see it rise much quicker than gold. It we’re seeing that even move now in the last few weeks when the metals have started to take off again here.

Bill: I saw a report not too long ago Doug that said and you’re going to get a variety of opinions on this but if silver were adjusted for inflation it would be at $125 an ounce today so to me always think it would be a lot easier for silver to move to $50 and double or you know to move to $40 and double roughly than it would be for gold to double you know moving to $2600. And I might be wrong on that too and folks this is not investment advice, just so everybody understands we’re just trying to figure this out just like you are and we’re coming into this just worried frankly for our families. So Doug you think silver has got some traction coming into the next?

Doug: Well, silver is to me it’s no such thing as a no lose investment, let me qualify that but it’s got two things working for it. If the economy was to miraculously turn around and ramp-up today you would see the industrial demand for silver for silver skyrocket because it is becoming a very key element in the production of many electronic goods that are out there, electronics and then technology. 0:47:01 has history on its side just from it being a monetary metal so if things go bad you’re going to see investment demand go up so it’s one of the more safe options out there, I mean either way this thing goes it’s going to see its demand increase. And there are some supply issues as well; the supply of silver has been diminished. There were 2 billion ounces of silver in government stockpiles in 1980 that is now down to about 500 million ounces, you know a huge percentage of reduction there so there are a lot of reasons to be considering silver as a way to move your wealth to move through these uncertain times.

Bill: So one of the ways to buy silver is to buy you know old coins, the pre-64 coins and I certainly try to have a handful of those around the guys I ever need them in an emergency. You’ve come up with a very unusual and interesting way to for what I would call the little got to accumulate silver. Do you want to talk about that a little bit about silver saver?

Doug: Sure, I got in touch through my book and a couple of seminars with some just Godly Christian men in Lawrence Kansas who have a company called Mass Metal. And they call it Mass Metal because what their heart is to get metal into the hand of the masses and that is the people who can’t afford to go out and spend 1, 2, 3, 4, $5000 on precious metals in any one-shot so they developed a program called silver saver and we’re actually going to be going to rolling gold saver out by the end of the year. But what silver saver allows people to do is very simply dollar cost average move into this market you can get onto the website and sign up and give us some information on how to make these transfers automatic between your bank account and the silver saver account and on a scheduled basis we go out and buy physical silver bullion for you at the market and we store it for you in a depository in Delaware. If you want to take delivery which we recommend, you can take delivery of it as well but what we are trying to do is give Christians a trusted source to move into accumulating silver over time with low premiums for small purchases so, you know the people let’s say who really can’t afford but maybe $50 a month that’s great, you’re making and taking some steps to protect your wealth.

And then on top of that there’s a rewards program where if you just referred a couple of people and said hey years this program I found and it’s working for me, the premiums are low, it’s automatic and they then actually begin saving as well you can begin to accumulate silver at spot price or below which is, it’s not a multilevel marketing thing, we don’t want to do that but it’s just an incentive to share the truth about what’s happening in our economy and help others to take themselves as well.

Bill: Well, why do you like dollar cost average, I mean I kind of have my own vision of that but what makes so much sense for the little guy to dollar cost average the silver?

Doug: Well, the silver market has been volatile and it will continue to be volatile as the powers that be play games with the paper market, hedge funds moved in and out and drive the price up you know more than it should and then they bring it down you know faster than it should, anything paper is unstable so when you’re measuring it in terms of US dollars the value of it, it gets to be a little bit challenging sometimes to try and time the market. And people they generally try to do that but it just takes that away. You set it and forget it, you know you go in and it allows you to come in and over time you look back over six months or a year you find out that you’ve got a very good average price that you’ve come into the market and silver as we believe will be significantly higher.

Bill: Well the folks should know too that there are companies and I think J. P. Morgan is one of four entities, financial entities that are constantly shorting silver with I believe and I don’t know that I can prove this but to others as well 0:51:00.7 that believe that they’re in collusion with the government and constantly shorting silver to hold silver back as well as gold but it’s more pronounced in silver. And there’s been a lot written about that, we don’t have too much time but I think it would be fun to do another show based on that but when Doug is talking about fluctuations you don’t know what you’re going to get because some big boys from J.P. Morgan are going to come in and not the price of silver back down but guess what, when you’re using Doug’s program and the silver price goes down you’re going to buy more of it the next time.

Brian: The next time around.

Bill: Knowing that the end game finally, you’re probably going to have a hyperinflationary blowout but you’re just constantly accumulating over and over.

Brian: And then Bill I also wanted to make mention of the fact that on Off the Grid News we’re going to do something pretty creative I think as well. If you go to you’re going to see the banner for the silver saver program. Do you want to talk about that real quick?

Bill: Well, I believe in Doug and I believe in the program enough that people especially Christian folks and little guys that can’t start and you know George 0:52:01.8 one of our friends.

Brian: Sure.

Bill: He’s buying you know tremendous amounts of gold at the same time he is saying gold is worthless.

Brian: Right, do as I say not as I do.

Bill: Yeah, his private dealings are buying enormous – he is one of the largest buyers of gold in the world so that should tell everybody China, China, folks in China are buying gold and silver like crazy so you ought to think about it and we believe in this. We believe that we ought to get – Chinese governments as a matter of fact is telling the same thing that this group is telling Americans, get some medals in your hands. Prepare yourself.

Doug: It’s amazing that the foreign governments are actually pro-actively telling their people to prepare for what’s happening and giving them good advice meanwhile our government is saying no, no, no just by U.S. Treasury bonds, you’ll be good.

Bill: You’ll be fine, while the communist Chinese people tell their citizens to take refuge in precious metals.

Doug: Right.

Brian: There you go.

Bill: That’s a good note to probably end it on.

Brian: And Doug I wish we could have you for another full hour and maybe in fact we will down the road but I want to thank you for your time this morning. Ladies and gentlemen we’ve been hanging out with Mr. Doug Tjaden, the author of Fools Gold, a book that you are definitely going to want to pick up and I think we will probably even have a link to it on our show notes at Off the Grid News.

Bill: You bet Brian.

Brian: Thank you Bill, at Bill a quick thought before we go?

Bill: Just buy gold and silver, that’s what I’m doing and you should try to do it even if you don’t have very much money like me. You know do it in a small way. I signed up for the program; I think it’s a great program. Look for our banner and just start accumulating in a small way, you don’t have to take a big shot at it, you don’t have to hit one over the fence on this.

Brian: You don’t have to go to J.P. Morgan on us. Ladies and gentlemen as always thank you so very much, a very special thanks to Doug Tjaden as well. Thank you for listening to Off the Grid Radio. Be sure to e-mail us with your questions, your comments, your critiques [email protected], that’s [email protected] and of course as always you can find us on [email protected]/solutionsfromscience and follow us on twitter at offgridnews. Until next time on behalf of Mr. Bill Heid and everyone here at Off the Grid News, I am Brian Brawdy, thanks for hanging out with us.

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