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It was supposed to be a relaxing inner tube ride down a beautiful river… – Episode 005

logoSolutions From Science founder Bill Heid and his wife were in Belize recently on a working vacation and had planned an afternoon on a world-famous river cave tubing trip. He recounts the trip and how his wife’s fears presented him with a survival planning lesson he’d never thought of before.


Off The Grid Radio
Released: July 1, 2010

Brian: Welcome once again to Off the Grid News, the radio version of Off the Grid News here at  I’m Brian Brawdy, joined today in person as opposed to the virtual Bill Heid of last week.  He was in Belize, Bill, welcome back to our humble little abode, our little studio.

Bill: Well thank you very much Brian.  It’s good to be back in our humble little abode as compared to a rainy little thatched hut.

Brian: Our little thatched hut.  I like to think of this as a house that we built.  Yeah it is dry.  There are no bugs.  So we got a lot to get to especially thankfully to the Supreme Court and all the breaking news they gave us yesterday but if it’s cool with you, I’d like to hear almost as a follow-up to last week show and I should also Bill at the beginning, thank everybody.  We’re signing up tens of thousands of people, thousands of people a day at Off the Grid News and also the folks downloading the podcast so if you haven’t had an opportunity yet to get the podcast via iTunes, you can add your name to a long list of people that are doing so.  So I wanted to thank our listeners, Bill, from the very outset for making us one of the fastest growing websites and most certainly iTunes accounts as well.  That said, how about catching us up a real quick, and that was a little Harry, getting out of Belize last week or even a couple of days ago catches up on the final part of your adventure and maybe tie it in to last week for us.

Bill: Well thanks.  Just a little note, a trip that we have planned just to do some more exploring and we were in one in Belize this time actually in some of the Mennonite country and back near San Ignacio which is near the Guatemalan border.  So we spent some time exploring, they have you know, cave tubing and other adventures like that that you can do.  You’d love it by the way.

Brian: How was the cave tubing?

Bill: Taking the tube through, it’s completely black and you’re going.  As a matter of fact, Kim, we got close, we’re in the mouth of the cave with our guide so this is our doctor, right, he went down with us to kind of see what’s going on for some medical opportunities and things and that so our doctor Tray and Kim, my wife, and I and our guide.  We got part way into the cave, and Kim said, “I can’t do this.”  And we had just walked like 45 minutes through the jungle to get to the mouth of the cave and she said, “I can’t do this.”  And you know, Tray and I looked at each other and thought, you know, there is no way, the guide was trying to talk her out.  There’s no way you’re going to… We both made a similar diagnosis that this is a panic thing.

Brian: Sure.

Bill: And you’re not going to…So that’s an important thing to think about, what are you capable of doing and you know thyself, right.  She was listening to us sort of try to pump her up.  You can do it, you can do it and she got there and she just said, “I can’t do this.”  So she had to turn around and go with the guide, we found a different guide and we went down through the blackness of the earth and the water on a cave with little helmet lights like a little miner’s light.

Brian: Oh cool.

Bill: And you don’t get the stalactites and stalagmites as much because the river floods and it goes down through there in floods to cave out.  So there is a constant wear.  But it was one of the most interesting little adventures that I have ever taken.

Brian: Oh very cool.  How long in duration, like top to bottom, how long were you?

Bill: Oh I think it was probably a kilometer or two through there, slow moving water.

Brian: Okay.

Bill: And we heard this roaring all the way we’re going down through this black thing, right, this black cavern.  And you’re just kind of looking with your light up at the wall and it might be 10, 20, 30 feet up and sometimes it’s a little bit less, and we heard this waterfall and we’re…the sound of it coming was ominous because you’re inside this and you don’t know we’re going over, does this guide know what he’s doing? And there is this waterfall and because of it, we finally get up to it. And because of the acoustics in the cave, you had the waterfall was 3 feet high but it sounds like you’re going to go over in Niagara Falls.  So in the back of my mind, even though Kim bailed early, I was thinking you know, should I kind of you know, put my foot down to make sure that we can stop this tube just in case we’re going over the falls and I got there and I felt really kind of foolish because it was just 2 feet.

Brian: Now, how did she feel at the end once you were finished? Had you explained the ordeal to her which is like, oh you know what; maybe I could have done that?

Bill: No.  She was happy that she …

Brian: That she did, that she hiked back.

Bill: Yeah.

Brian: Okay.

Bill: She made a good choice I think overall.

Brian: But you know it better.

Bill: And I think we all should you know think when we think about, sometimes you and I talk about preparations.  We need to think about what we’re capable of doing and what we’re not and make decisions based on what’s a good read on our own lives and there really isn’t anybody that knows you know, you were like you.

Brian: Right.

Bill: So your other people can you know, your family and friends can kind of talk you into doing things but you better know what you’re capable of accomplishing and what you’re not.

Brian: That’s a great point and even from it like a fun day out – a great survival tip, you know, of picturing some of these things in advance to try to prepare your mind, you know, we call it mind-ups, but are you going to be able to do it when that moment comes, are you going to panic or perish?

Bill: Well if you go, yeah, a lot of people would say the same thing about doing something like you know, killing an animal or something because they had to do that and eat. Could you kill you know, a deer and butcher a deer and some people think that they could, or I’ll just do that.  And sometimes, it’s not so easy and you have to go through these stages.  I was hoping she could go through part of the stage to get there and but it was clear that immersion therapy, no pun intended with the water, the immersion therapy wasn’t going to work in that case.

Brian: Alright.  Well that’s exactly what it was when you think about, you know, especially if there is a bright light at the end of a dark tunnel, it’s like being reborn again almost.  You know, I could see why that would.  I’m not sure I could do it.  I mean I like the idea as it sounds but I’ve often said, you know, hey everyone want to go skydiving.  And that has, and I’ve been in planes before with paratroopers that are jumping out but in that last moment, could you take the leap out.  You never can tell…

Bill: You don’t know.  Sometimes it’s fun to just go experiment and see what you’re capable of doing if you can manage the risk in some ways ahead of time which is what we did.  And so she was there waiting for us. We got through and we, I think we both thought it was a wonderful experience and I’d love to go back down and take the kids.

Brian: Great.

Bill: And you know take grandkids or whoever and you ought to go down with us and do that.

Brian: I would love to.

Bill: Go explore the interior a little bit.  And the interior of Belize just to kind of finish up on that a little bit.  The interior of Belize is very beautiful and you’re right next to the Guatemalan border, and so I was overlooking Guatemala and I could see Guatemalan soldiers on the border itself as I was on a Mayan temple. A thirteen-story temple of that doctor and I climbed up to look down and see the entire, but as you looked around, it looked like Northern Illinois because there’s dairy farms, there’s pastures, and this is again, this is an area that is so inhabited by local farmers and a lot of Mennonites as well.  So, and the story is on the way out, we ran into Alex and that’s the part that you and I were talking about earlier, we run into hurricane Alex and that’s the part I think that was interesting and you know, going through all these adventures and just doing whatever it was that we wanted to do.  We went out on a catamaran around the island and stuff like that and we’d later, but we kind of had to make a decision one night and I kind of want to just go through this and talk about decision-making and being wise and making good decisions. We were, we had eaten supper and we saw the storm coming, we saw Alex.  At the time, it was a tropical depression. We saw it coming and it was heading right at us and no one at the place where we were staying had yet even conceived that there was a little rain and they thought it was going to be a storm.  And I said to my wife and Tray, you know, we probably have to consider getting out of here because our plane didn’t leave until Monday, or excuse me, until Sunday.  And I said we probably ought to think about getting out of here.  Why? Well, you know, what’s going to happen is everyone’s going to try to get out at once and there is not going to be any flights and sure enough. We had got, we made our reservations that night in the middle of the night knowing that when morning came and it was cloudy and rainy and the winds were pushing towards you know, 20, 30, 40, whatever it is, that pre-hurricane stuff that comes in with lots of rain. We knew that we, when we got up the next morning, we had made a good decision when we got to the airport. And this is again thinking about survival, thinking about how to make it out of a situation intact. We got to the airport, the small airport that you’ve been to out of Tropica at Ambergris Key packed with people, trying to get out. And I remember these are little Cesnas trying to get in and out of that airport to get you back to the mainland.

Brian: I can remember they hold like 2, 4, 6, 10 people at the most.

Bill: Right. And there’s just not enough of them.

Brian: Sure.

Bill: You know, cycling back and forth and when it gets windy, that’s when you want to be in a little plane when the wind is blowing 70 miles an hour and that is just a good question we all could ask ourselves.

Brian: Kim was like, alright, this or the tube through the cave, I think I’ll go back into the tube through the cave before I want to get on that plane and take it back over.

Bill: Exactly, yeah.

Brian: Alright, here’s what we’re going to do Bill. We’re coming up on a hard break so here’s what I’d like to do in the second segment if we could talk a little more about your experiences in Belize and then go over some of the stuff that we learned while you were just back about the Supreme Court’s decision in McDonald versus Chicago.  Before I let you go, remember to email us at [email protected], that’s info@offthegridnews or of course, you can reach out to us at twitter@offgridradio and of course, Facebook, our producer Jeramy checks all of those.  You are also welcome to leave us a voice mail at 815-902-0252, 815-902-0252 back after the break.

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Brian: Welcome back once again to Off The Grid News and the Off The Grid News radio show.  I’m Brian Brawdy ready to get right back to Mr. Bill Heid.  Bill, let’s catch up again in addition to everything else that went down in being in Belize, what it took for you to get out in advance of hurricane Alex?

Bill: Well as I said, we had made some preparatory decisions and that first part of making any decision has to be in your mind and then it’s having the idea of taking some fast action and I’m sure that you know, you’ve resonate with us with your experience in Katrina. Just having that idea is not enough and this is what we continue to tell people that are listening is that if you think there is a storm coming, it can be hurricane, it can be a thunderstorm, we just had some thunderstorms run through here last week that knocked trees down and power out and everything else so if you see a storm coming, it could be financial, it could be socio-economic.  If you see it coming, that it really is incumbent upon you to protect your family and to take some action, whatever that action is, we try to get people action ideas with our products that are on the website, but it takes some kind of action.  So we made this decision, we’re going to fly it, we got over to the other airport and guess what, it was full of people. By then, our doctor had flown delta by then, that the flights, all the delta flights were canceled.  So even when you make preparations and this is an important part, even when you make preparations, things happen that you’re not done making that first decision isn’t enough.  You’ve got to continually be light on your feet and try to figure out ways to get through it. So he had to do some fast dancing and make some quick decisions about flying out because all the delta flights were canceled and so all of those people are at the airport and guess what, they were all trying to get on the continental flight that was going out. So picture all these people leaving their vacations early, all these people from the delta flights, they are all focused and guess what, there’s only so many seats.  So how can we liken that to what the things that you and I are talking about? Maybe you’re buying gold; you don’t want to buy gold when it’s at $5,000.  You don’t want to take the protective measure when everyone else is like trying to find the seat.  By the way, the only way to get out of there, you want to know what it was. Go first class.  The only seats left were first class so you had the pony up and pay a fortune just to get out.  And really, there is almost kind of a bidding process, that same bidding process was going to go on in I believe in our country in areas like food, in areas like we know, water filters and all the things that we talk about, gold and silver and investments like that.  I think as you get a demand, if the storm comes and you’re unprepared, then you’re going to either pay up or do without.  One of those two things is going to be, you know, I tell that road trees off.

Brian: Sure.

Bill: But as it were, we had made the decision and then looking back, we got out of there and so did our doctor, as we looked back, we realized what happened.  And several things happened back there that could have been life-threatening.  The winds weren’t that bad, we probably would have stayed at a special shelter an un-air-conditioned shelter which we would have survived that, probably made some new friends with some of the local 0:17:24.5 down there.

Brian: Sure.

Bill: You know the crowd right and then we would have got out; we would have been delayed, probably 3 or 4 days in getting out of there. If we had stayed inland, it was interesting that we had gone over this bridge to get to a Mayan temple that we want to visit, an archeological site and that bridge, a hand-cranked bridge you drive your vehicle on it and some guy cranks you across.

Brian: Wow.

Bill: That bridge I just read in the Clinton paper.  I read in a Clinton paper of all things that bridge was wiped out.  So had we been on the other side of that bridge, we would still be there and of course, there is not a lot of hotels at a Mayan, maybe you know we could have lodged with the Mennonites, maybe they would let us join their community for a few days, maybe they would have said, no, you don’t have the hat and a blue shirt or whatever.  So I don’t know how they would react to us wanting to do that but literally, that got the river flooded and washed that bridge out that we crossed and so we would have been a long way from anything, you know, no visa cards out in that country.

Brian: Sure.

Bill: The Division of Labor that we’re accustomed to the life that we’re accustomed to would have been absent.  And all of a sudden, then you have to go to a different skill set. What is it that you can do? Can you make friends? Can you talk to people? Can you figure out a ploy? Can you ask for help in the right language to the right people? Go ahead and try to ask for help to the wrong people, right?

Brian: Sure.

Bill: You end up in a harm’s way.

Brian: Another harm’s way.  Sure.

Bill: Yeah and again, that asking for help to the wrong people in Katrina could have meant the end, right?

Brian: As soon as you said that, I thought about the emergency evacuation routes but everyone thought about the emergency evacuation route so I’ve said to people since that experience, you have to prepare yourself to think the unthinkable. If in your case, you thought, oh don’t worry about it, we’ll just get over to the hand-cranked bridge, then we’ll do this and do that.  So you have to almost disregard everything that you think is the norm in survival, expect that all of that isn’t going to be available to you and then what would you do.  So sometimes, having a plan if that plan is written in the parlance of the day, it doesn’t really help you.  Roads could be out, bridges could be out.

Bill: Right.  It’s an attitude thing.

Brian: Absolutely, it’s a survival it’s more mental than mechanical on most times.  It’s more of a temperament than relying always on technology, but you’re right, thinking on your feet is absolutely that.  So how did it end up for you?

Bill: Well I mean it ended up in constant theme and I’m just going to add this because it’s an important thing to me.  A constant theme for us was just you know, leaning on God and praying for help and praying not only praying for help for ourselves to you know get out and to get back to the world that we know much better but praying for the locals that have much less capacity and sometimes resiliency to deal with things.  It’s just; we don’t all have the same amount of resources to take care of things so there is a good deal of prayer. You know, we prayed for that you know the things would work out for the friends that we had made back there and we’re in the process now of trying to contact some of those people to make sure that everything is okay with them.

Brian: But you know it makes me think back to an earlier episode that we did, I believe it was back on June 7, I’ll have Jeramy check. But when we talk to Frank it made me think back to one of the questions we kicked around with him.  Is it possible to the people that are living there and are subject to this and realize that they are not able to get out? Do you suspect they would have stood a better chance of survival knowing that there wasn’t an escape plan? Do you think some of those very people that you wonder about now would be going, “Bill, it’s a little wind, a little water, we do that once a month here.”

Bill: Yeah I think there are some that’s true about.  I did read that some people in the area that we were in got underneath a rock cropping and for shelter and the water, the rains made the rocks loose and it killed a bunch of people.  So in some of the areas that they have can’t withstand these winds.  Some of the people on the street just again don’t have the resources necessary to do that and so part of this whole thing is as we’ve talked, can you help yourself? Sure that’s pretty important but then, how many people can you help along with you? Who can you take with you? Who can you help get back on their feet or whatever it is after the fact as well.  So I think that the flooding really took its toll and there’s not a lot of ways to prepare for just you know, you go to higher ground but you take your shirt and your back and you high tail it out and the locals know how to do that.

Brian: To do that, right.

Bill: But it doesn’t protect their housing and everything that they have back home.

Brian: Sure.

Bill: They get wiped out so now what do you do?

Brian: A great question and one that is constantly as you know, our goal here at Off The Grid News radio is kind of taking our listeners and that the list of listeners as I’ve said that kick off is growing every day.  So you may want to say to your friends, hey this is a pretty cool radio show and a podcast, tune in to Bill and Brian but that’s our goal, it’s to make our folks think not only off the grid but outside of the box. So that heaven forbid they’re confronted by any emergency situation that they’ll be better prepared to do so.  We’re going to go ahead and get ready for the break.  Before I let you go as always, please remember as I’ve said, suggest to your friends, you can get us information about us at or of course you can email Jeramy, Bill, myself directly at info@offthegridnews.  Find us on twitter@offgridradio and of course on Facebook as well, or reach out, call us 815-902-0252 back after the break.

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Brian: Welcome back once again to Off The Grid News and our radio show, the Off The Grid News radio show at  You know Bill, I say to Jeramy all the time that we should probably tape the breaks when the commercials are playing.

Bill: The breaks are better than.

Brian: Yeah. Arguably if you’ve seen our show.  But you make me chuckle.  I’m thinking alright, wait a minute, I 0:27:19.9 this up for you but you’re going to equate for me in my mind Mayan Temples and gun control.  And I remember you say you were in top of the Mayan Temple, I think you said thirteen-stories, you were looking down, you saw the Nicaraguan army but I’m still not ready.. together for us, Mayan temples, the military and gun control so take it away.

Bill: That’s an interesting one to connect but it’s one that needs to be connected especially now because as I you know, listen to talk radio or when I watch TV at night, you know, as I listen to Fox. I don’t think anybody is connecting the dots where the law has come from and I think as I was climbing up this Mayan Temple, and again, thirteen-stories and realizing these – the culture there was unbelievably regimented.  These were mathematical people but there were a priestly class and there were royalty, there were traders, you know, the crystal skull and the jade skull, stuff right out of Indiana Jones came from this area so it’s fascinating to talk about.  There was a tremendous amount of commerce that went through, so, and then there was the people that actually built the pyramids down there.

Brian: Sure.

Bill: The temples.  And I guess what I’m making the case is – I studied a little bit, our guide was Mayan and so that, and as a matter of fact, he grew up right not too far from the temple.  We had visited his village and he pointed up and said, everyday, as a little boy, I looked up at that temple when I was out doing farm work and that was really interesting for me.  Imagine growing up and seeing that temple glistening in the sun and that’s part of your life and your culture. Such a different one from ours how he grew up and he grew up Roman Catholic but he is a big student of Mayan culture, Mayan history and where I’m going with this is they were incredible astronomers and mathematicians and they treated people like numbers in some way.  Now, they had a very regimented culture which meant that it was boxed in and by the way, when I say boxed in, I mean the culture was boxed in very much the same way that the Egyptians boxed their culture in so you had, if you were a Mayan temple builder, right, and you’re carrying rocks and you say, and you’re a slave, which they did and they also did sacrifice, and you said, I want to appeal to something outside the culture.  They had no appeal because they had what I will just coin as an imminent culture.  Your law came from the priestly class, law came from royalty, you were a number, you had no concept of outside of the priestly class.  So when it came to law, the only law that you might associate with as a Mayan rock carrier is the law that was imposed on you from the top down.  So just like the Egyptians, Pharaoh was connected with divinity so you’ve got this whole and philosophical terms, we call that a chain of being where the hierarchy, you had God and government became the same thing.  Right, pharaoh was God, offspring of the Sun God, and that human divinity but he’s where it is as far as it could go.  You didn’t appeal to Rah in Egyptian culture.  You could appeal to Pharaoh but you were still anthropamoric of the key word still human centered.  Mayan culture is the same thing.  What would happen was you could only know the laws that were given to you from people.  So how can we segway this over in to gun control was very easily done.  We’re approaching a period in time where we’re very similar to the Mayans and the Egyptians.  We have a culture of law that’s imposed on us from human beings.  This is a very different thing than what the early colonial belief was. The Puritans and certainly the people who fought the English civil war, Cromwell and those folks had a very different idea of where law came from.  Charles I was the reason Cromwell went into war against Charles I is he said, he was attacking the divine right of kings. Again, this is something similar in Mayan culture.  Charles I said, “I am the law.  I make the law.  Whatever I say is the law.”  Cromwell said, “No.  We have a covenant because of England 1215.  We have a covenant with you.  You have your duties and roles.  We have our duties and roles and you’re not doing yours.  You’re a covenant breaker because law comes from outside this human thing.” So there’s something that Cromwell appealed to and it was the God of scripture.  So the same thing with our early colonial fathers, they appeal to something.  As a matter of fact, they used to carry placards that said, appeal to heaven, when they made their, because if you’re just going to appeal to George, you’re subject to the whims of the Hanoverian king and you’re still inside the same box, the same kind of government the Mayans had that was imposed, you know that Tierney and through George III tried to impose on the colonials and my guess is we’re heading there some place again, very similar. We have no transcendent idea that we can appeal outside of this box.  The box is manmade.  But it takes that appeal and you and I talked about this before the show.  Where do our rights to own guns come from?

Brian: Absolutely.

Bill: So that’s kind of my way of connecting those things.  You have a regimented society, a top down society that tells you what the laws area, no appeal because you’re metaphysics of that society; have no concept of outside that society.  They have a vague heaven and hell but no law.  No law system and the law code is entirely derived from within itself.

Brian: And I know we’re going to get to this in the next segment but that was a little, I mean there’s all kinds of things to be temporarily excited about with the Supreme Court’s decision yesterday in McDonald versus Chicago, but there is also some things about that decision to be disappointed in and for me, listening to a lot of the people who applauding the effort yesterday, I was stunned at the number of people that believe and perhaps some of our listeners, that believe the constitution guarantees your right to keep them bear arms and it’s always been my position not unlike when you talked about in terms of the pyramid and the Mayan culture but that’s an inalienable right that the only reason is even mentioned in the constitution is that obviously, it won’t be infringed.  But the constitution doesn’t give us the right to protect ourselves, to protect life, you know, to follow on that a pursuit of happiness, but that comes outside of that construct and the constitution is there to protect us from a government trying to pair away some of those rights.

Bill: Certainly that’s the case, that the founders had made the constitution by in large is a bunch of thou shalt not’s to the federal government, not to the state.  What can the federal government, a bunch of states went to gather and said, how can we bind ourselves again a covenantal way, how can we bind ourselves together and this was the list of things that they said the constitutional bill of rights were a list of things that they say federal government can’t impose this on us and those things were you know, religion and taxes and a bunch of things. That if you wanted to have a state like Rhode Island and it happened to have a, if it was Catholic or a Presbyterian and whatever it was, they could have a Presbyterian state, that was not, that would have been perfectly fine to the founders where everybody had to be Presbyterian. If you didn’t like it, what would you do? You move to Virginia or something.

Brian: I know it’s terribly uncomfortable for folks but born in us is that sense of Nomadicism and you and I have discussed before whether your belief structure is more secular and you think we walked out of the savannahs of Africa or you have a sacred mindset the way we walked out of the garden of Eden. There still is this nomadic bent to the human being where they have to move.  They’re on the go.  They’re surviving, thinking on their feet and from me, when I heard that yesterday, and I want you to comment on it in our next segment because we’ve got some other breaking news from our end as well is some of the suggestions, some of the Tylenol for the headaches of things that went down yesterday, but that’s what was most disconcerting for me was this underlying implication that the constitution gave us that. That a group of men got together and say we’re going to give you this and it’s like the color of your eyes.  You got to look at a little farther back than 1776 and cannanical law to have been given the color of your eyes and to me, that’s a big deal.  We’re going to go ahead and get back with Mr. Bill Heid right after the break.  Before I let you go, as always please remember to join us.  You can reach us at; you can email us at [email protected].  Find us on twitter@offgridradio and of course, on Facebook as well.  Just go ahead and search off the grid news.  Stick around; you’re not going to want to miss our fourth and final segment of today’s show.

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Brian: Welcome back to our final segment on today’s episode of Off The Grid News and  We are very fired up to have Bill Heid with us back in the studio today.  He was on his expedition, his adventure in Belize last week, if you listen to the show like thousands of other people that are doing so of late. You know, that Bill called in from Belize.  We’ve had him here with us today to go ahead and recap and Bill, what I’d like to do now because a lot happened while you were gone but most notably, the Supreme Court’s decision yesterday. I want to get you to comment on that and I know that you and I agree on probably about 90% of it but the Supreme Court’s decision in McDonald versus Chicago saying that in fact, the constitution upholds and individual’s right to keep and bear arms, all types of arms in their homes.  I wonder what you think of that on first read and how we could start tying that into some of the news.  I know that we have for our listeners later in this segment.

Bill: Let’s go back and talk and create a context for this whole debate and I think the context is and this is really an off the grid issue because it’s off the grid history as it were.  The context for us has to be what was the concept of government that the colonialist and then the later writers of the constitution had when they came into this.  And I would go back and argue that they had a view of civil government very different than what we have now. What was articulated especially by the late Abraham Kuyper of the Netherlands when he was prime minister was something he called this fear government where you had self-government, you had family government, you had church government, you had your businesses practices were governed by this fear government of the guild, so you couldn’t just do anything you want to outside your guild.  You had things that you had to abide by. You had local community government with constables and so forth and then at the end, you had civil government.  And not even this big you know, megalith that we had now but look at the debate for the actual time of the constitution.  There was a lot of anti-federalists and you know, she passed but men like George Mason and Patrick Henry and a lot of other great people said this is a dumb idea because we’re creating a preeminent state that’s going to end up becoming an empire and those folks that said that and those folks that raised those concerns really sought. so when we look at what can government do, well in a Mayan situation, Pharaoh situation or government human beings can grant rights.  So I think the context of this thing has to be even with the decision that happened yesterday, you had someone telling us that we can do something when clearly that right exists apart from what civil government – so my argument would be hey guys, this isn’t even your jurisdiction.  That’s the main thing as far as I’m concerned.  This is isn’t your jurisdiction.

Brian: And I’ll give you the legal word with eight years of law school under my belt, the word is “duh.”  It was like alright you have the weather report, can you state anything else obvious for me is that…

Bill: Can I use the restrooms?

Brian: Yeah exactly.

Bill: Oh thank you Supreme Court.  But wait ‘til the Supreme Court switches now, wait ‘til Kagan gets in and I won’t be able to use the restroom.  That will be something that I’ll have to ask to do, maybe I’ll need a permit to do that.  Why not, I mean if you say government can do X, where is the breaks? What can government not do? And is it competes with these other’s fears that I mentioned? Do they compete with self-government, family government?  We know the government wants your kids, it wants them in a public school from the earliest time, it wants to feed them breakfast, it wants cradled, it wants to say very much the way Cesar said when people worshiped the genius of Cesar during the Roman period, it wants to say, worship me, put your faith in me and I’ll cover you.  You don’t have to work, you don’t have to think, you don’t have to do anything.  So a historical examination, this isn’t something you’re going to hear in Fox News because Sean Hannity and Bill O’Reilly don’t ever, they’re still operating with inside that box.  It’s a lesser form of government, they don’t want to go over the cliff as fast as 0:45:16.4 but it’s a lesser form of the same box.  We got to get used to start to talk about where our rights come from and which jurisdiction are we even in. And I think if you listen to talk radio today, it’s all about everyone makes these assumptions that government ought to be there.  Oh you don’t mean that the government shouldn’t be helping poor people.  No I don’t want the government helping poor.  I want people; I want individuals and churches helping poor people and organizations helping poor people. But I don’t think that that’s what the government is designed to be, have a negative orientation to control the evil-doer, that’s its purpose.  So that’s the context I’d like to look at this thing.

Brian: Sure. And I will say to you that I’ve often thought you know, we had talked about religious organizations and people helping people outside of the government, we don’t do it because we should.  We do it because we can.  When you go to help another person and I’ve said this to you before.  If the reason you open a door for someone is to get the thank you, then just admit that it’s a quid pro quo. Just admit that you’re doing something because you want a favorable return, at least admit that upfront. But the desire to want to help someone isn’t because the government regulates it, it’s not because we should, but because we can and I think that’s why you and I agree on that point.  We shouldn’t have someone legislate compassion; we do it because it’s the right thing. We don’t need a government big brother telling us; hey pick up the piece of candy over there.

Bill: Did you know for example, that at the height of a communist, this is where all this goes, if you want to know what the 0:46:49.7 if you want to know the end game of it all is the government wants to control everything, it became, it was the illegal to do any charitable work in the Soviet Union during the height of Stalin’s reign.  I believe it was Stalin, but certainly into the next regime as well.  But you couldn’t even do charitable work.  If you saw someone that needed something and you went and fed that person, that was against the law because who was ultimate? The State.  Who was caregiver? The State.  So this is where, if people want to know where all this ends up at the current trajectory where we’re at now, it ends up, it won’t have a Stalinous name, it will have something cool and hip.

Brian: Oh well we learned the protection of the Mainstream People Act or you know, Securing Cyberspace Security Act.  We’ve always got great names.

Bill: The I Love You Act will be the result in a bunch of people being shot.

Brian: Yes absolutely.

Bill: My way of showing that I love you and I love our culture is to shoot you because you disagree with me.

Brian: Disagree or because I know better than you.

Bill: We call it the I Love You Act.

Brian: Sure, and you see it every day.  All you have to do is read any of the bills coming out of congress and you can …

Bill: The Job’s bill, what does that have to do with the job’s bill or whatever?

Brian: Well that’s what scares me most about the commerce clause is that if you extrapolated out the commerce clause could say one day Bill, I don’t like the idea of you growing tomatoes in your backyard, whether you have the plan of selling them or moving them like but that’s why we got a whole the politician’s feet to the fire.  Look, you and I aren’t radical nonconformists.  We’re simply saying that there’s a rule of law and the people that we put in power should follow that rule of law.  So I know you’ve got some breaking news that you’re going to share with our listeners and I want to get to that because we’ve only got 3 minutes left but good golly, every time you go away when you come back, there’s all kinds of stuff to talk about so we might include some of this discussion in our next show as well.  But go ahead, here is the drum roll, talk to me about

Bill: Well we had this concept before with the hide your guns where we said, look, if you’re going to be a gun owner, you ought to be responsible gun owner and we think gun owners are going to come under increasing scrutiny as the discussion if you watch, you know talk TV and talk radio if you listen to talk radio, you’ll find that it’s the scrutiny is there. Mayor Daly just responded to that very quickly and so, with our hide your guns from our motif, our idea was how can we keep out of the hands of criminals because the more stories that exist in someone stealing a gun and then using it for illegal activities just as it gives them another reason to say get rid of the guns.

Brian: That and innocent people being hurt by them, you know, probably the only time in my life that I will equate the words criminals and children in the same breath but some of the people that will go, Bill, you’re an advocate of the second amendment, what are you going to do about all the kids that are killed every year in their home because guns weren’t secured properly, so kind of the flip side of the same coin.

Bill: Yeah we talked about self government, family government.  Certainly this tool – the thing that you’re mentioning Brian is something that we’ve got in a little gun vault, that’s biometric that we’re going to be introducing that you put your finger over it and what’s the phrase that you use.

Brian: I like this as soon as I saw you do it earlier back in the green room, I like the idea of drag and draw.  You drag your finger across the biometric sensor, tell us about that.

Bill: Yeah there’s a little sensor on there that knows your fingerprint and no one else’s, you program it to know, you can use your little pinkie or you and your wife can both do it, anybody in your family, you drag your finger across there and the safe opens up, and so you’ve got a loaded gun at your disposal, you know for the evil-doer as Sean Hannity said last night. But you’ve got something that’s not going to be stolen and you’ve got something that protects your children from the obvious dangers of having a loaded gun.  No one would say that that’s not a dangerous thing and children need to be protected part of family government against things that can harm them.

Brian: Well that’s fine and unfortunately, we only have a minute that always happens, you and I get started then there’s a thousand other questions I’d like to discuss but the beauty of the drag and draw is that it’s your fingerprint you’re dragging across, you never have to worry about somebody getting there that shouldn’t.  Bill, I know we got to run, thank you so much, I’m glad you made it out in advance of Alex, I’m glad you’re home, I hope you’re able to talk to Kim into the raft through the dark cave, next time.  Ladies and gentleman, we’re going to have to run but in the interim, please don’t forget to email us at [email protected].  I promise you that Bill, Jeremy or I see those emails as they come in.  You can also find us at offgridradio on Twitter and of course Facebook, just Google Off The Grid News or of course leave us a voicemail at 815-902-0252.  Until next time, we know you don’t have a lot of extra hours to hang out every week it really is an honor to have you here with us at Off The Grid News radio.

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