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Thwarting the Socialist Agenda – Episode 061

America has an enemy. This enemy is very close to seeing its goals realized. One need only look at the economic, cultural, and spiritual morass that we find ourselves in to see this. Whether this enemy’s agenda is liberalism, humanism, socialism, or Marxism, the thing to understand is that all these agendas have a common worldview and common ground for how they want to transform this country.

This enemy wants to transform this country because they truly believe that America is evil. Their books, their works, their words, and their papers tell us in their own words that they want to dismantle the America that we’ve known and loved.

Off The Grid Radio
Ep 061
Released: August 12, 2011

Brian: Ladies and gentlemen, as the announcer says, welcome to Off the Grid News – the radio version of I’m Brian Brawdy, here as always with Mr. Bill Heid. Bill, how are you today sir?

Bill: Brian, I’m always doing well. Thank you for asking. You’re looking dapper, chipper – all of those things today.

Brian: I’ve got one word for you.

Bill: What?

Brian: Two, actually. Chia, baby.

Bill: Chia, baby.

Brian: I’m digging the chia. I’ve got to tell you, I’m digging our chia. I use it every day. I love it.

Bill: So do I. It’s part of my life. It’s part of what I do.

Brian: It’s great energy. I love it. That’s my commercial – buy our chia. It’s great. Do you know what I mean? And I learned a lot from Marcus – no, I’m sorry, it wasn’t Marcus …

Bill: Nick – Nick Watson.

Brian: Nick, in our last interview. I have a friend Marcus who knew something about it as well. Learned a lot from him about how to use it, how to incorporate it as you have into your everyday life. I love it. I love it. I’m a huge fan.

Bill: Yeah, because how do you just eat seeds? There’s got to be a little …

Brian: He taught me this trick of hydrolyzing it.

Bill: Putting it in water.

Brian: You put it in the water, let it sit over night. You get up in the morning and it’s …

Bill: Hydrolyzing it sounds like there’s a lot of work involved and you’re a scientist. But if I just said to you “put it in water,” that sounds …

Brian: No, no, no. I like to sound smarter, “so I hydrolyzed my chia …” So I’m doing great, thank you very much. But also very excited about our guest today. Tremendously excited. He reminds me of a friend of mine – do you want to know who he reminds me of?

Bill: Sure.

Brian: Senator Bob Kerrey from Nebraska. I worked on his presidential campaign a lot of years ago. Senator Kerrey also had a terribly successful restaurant – I don’t know if you knew that. It was called Mother’s. He’s done all these other things but that’s kind of a bit, so I’m excited to talk to our guest for a whole host of reasons but it made me think back fondly to Senator Kerrey.

Bill: If you look at the news, there’s not a headline – maybe you’re looking at The Drudge Report, maybe you’re looking at FOX News, whatever people look at, ZeroHedge or something – but every piece of information, if you draw it back, it goes back to what our guests have talked about. In other words, he’s gone after the symptoms – all these things are symptoms – he’s traced down “why are all these things happening?” So you’re seeing the symptoms of something bigger than what they are as individual things. It’s like “my arm is swollen up” – let’s trace that back and find out what it is. I’ve got something that’s edemia or something – I’ve got something that’s making me swell up, what is it? Maybe that’s my kidneys but it’s not my arm.

Brian: But you know what happens, Bill, on a day like today or in this age, is we use consumerism as a medication. He’s going to talk to us about the underlying symptom and go “remember that old joke – I went to my doctor and said ‘it hurts when I do this,’ and you’re doctor goes ‘well stop doing that.’” Do you know what I mean?

Bill: My doctor actually does say that.

Brian: It’s a little different with you. But you know what else I enjoy about our guest, Bill, and you told me “Brian, when you watch this documentary, watch the credits roll,” because it’s a home-grown, homemade and it turns out to be a great metaphor for how we can start to beat back what this documentary talks about.

Bill: You’ve got to know what you’re fighting if you’re going to beat it back. You’ve got to know what you’re fighting. There’s probably not a better DVD than our guest’s in terms of getting a broad-based picture for what we’re really fighting against.

Brian: I couldn’t agree more.

Bill: Why don’t you introduce him and we’ll get right into it.

Brian: Sure. Ladies and gentlemen, our guest today has started and operated many businesses over the last quarter of a century, most notably his award-winning Mona Lisa Fondue Restaurants. He’s also been a state representative in the Idaho legislature and is currently the precinct committeeman for the Republican Party. Big news though, Bill, as you know, he completed a two-year film project with his family called “Agenda: Grinding America Down.” This documentary film, Bill, won the $101,000 grand prize for “Best of Festival” at the 2010 San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival and it has been widely distributed throughout grass roots efforts of many good folks here nationwide. We also have it, as you know, Bill, in our store at We’re going to talk today with the producer, the director, the writer, the everything involved in this video, Mr. Curtis Bowers. Curtis, how are you sir?

Curtis: I’m doing well, thank you.

Brian: We were excited because Agenda was such a great documentary. I’ve got to tell you, I really liked the trailer. Before we go, I noticed that you’re also going to begin filming the sequel to the Agenda later this summer so we’ll want to catch up on that. Give us an idea – what was the tipping point? Bill is always asking me, “Brian, what caused you to turn that corner?” What was the tipping point? How did you wake up one day and go “you know what? I’ve been successful in business, I’ve done this, I’ve done that … now I think I’m going to let my inner Steven Spielberg out.”

Curtis: Well, I think I saw and observed what most people listening to your show have observed – America has been changing dramatically. You look around, I don’t think anyone would argue with that. Maybe some on the left like the way this changed, some on the right don’t. Regardless of that, it is a completely different world than even when we were growing up 30-40 years ago. As I kept looking at that and things came to mind, I realized a key question is “has that been just the way things go, by accident? Or is there a reason why that is happening?” That’s really what got me wanting to find out what has happened. It all precipitated I wrote to the editor about some of the cultural changes in our country. That letter ended up exploding and being the feature story on the evening news. People were protesting at the capitol … so many things over it. I realized then that I’d hit on something very important that most people have no idea what’s going on.

Brian: Exploded is a good word. [laughs] I read the letter – that’s a good word to use, Curtis.

Curtis: From that, I started to realize that people – I think if I could dig in and find out what had happened to our country we might be able to more effectively stop what is going on. Of course my conclusion from the overwhelming amount of information I got was it hasn’t been an accident. America hasn’t just fallen off a cliff and that’s just the way things go. There’s been people in groups of the left pushing for decades – 70-80 years – to undermine our families, our churches, our culture, in every way possible. Even though they’re just a fringe minority, they have been incredibly successful.

Bill: Tell me a little bit, Curtis – I have to tell you, when I watched your documentary and I watched it all the way through, I thought “this is really a great presentation.” Then I saw the end of it, and I don’t want to get to the end of it, what actually happens, but I saw the credits or before the credits, and who it was in memory of. I almost had a tear in my eye because Fred had turned me on to this whole thing years and years ago, in the late 70s. I knew Fred Schwarz and I learned about this from him. I still have his tapes about communism at my house – my old cassette tapes are really beat up, I listened to them over and over and over about Feuerbachian materialism and about the Hegelian dialectic. Nobody really told that story any better than Fred, even to this day. I think he nailed it then and it’s just as appropriate – his analysis … obviously, yours is, did you know Fred or did you run into him? How did it be in memory of Fred?

Curtis: Every person I interviewed, all the top people that you see on the documentary, almost all of them when I said “what got you involved in this fight?” they said “Dr. Fred Schwarz.” He has had an incredible impact on this country for good and educating people of what we are fighting, whether we are fighting it in a Cold War scenario or whether we’re fighting on our home turf by people that are trying to change us from the inside out. I did have the privilege one time – that same summer I went to that conference in 1992 at Berkeley – after that, I flew down to Los Angeles to visit some friends and I had the privilege of going out to dinner with just me and him – Dr. Schwarz and myself. A good friend of mine knew him well and said “I think you’d enjoy this.” I went out to dinner at Sizzler – he loved Sizzler – I really treasure that dinner. We talked for about 2 ½ hours. Just a funny, delightful, and incredibly intelligent man that had dedicated his entire life to fighting Communism here in America, whether it be through the nuclear war scenario or the grass-root efforts of changing America within. That’s why I did that.

Bill: We’ve got a little break that we’re going to do here, Curtis, but what I want to talk about before we actually talk about the video is I think he’s hit on something, and you hit on it in your video, what is Communism? Let’s do some definitions and then look at about how we can apply some things because there are some things happening today with our budget that are Hegelian in principle and I want to chat with you a bit about them because I think it’s really important.

Curtis: Sounds good.

Brian: Alright, ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to run to a quick commercial break and then we’ll be right back with Mr. Curtis Bowers, here at Off the Grid News.

[0:10:10 – 14:25 break]

Brian: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Off the Grid News, here today with Mr. Curtis Bowers. You know him as the producer and director of “Agenda: Grinding America Down” – won “Best of Festival” and the $101,000 grand prize at the 2010 San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival. Ladies and gentlemen, say hello again to Curtis Bowers. Alright, Bill, what are you thinking here? I know you’ve got a lot to talk about today with Curtis, let’s jump right in.

Bill: “Agenda” is such a massive construction that I’m not sure quite how to – it’s big, so I don’t know how to deal with it other than to tell people you absolutely need to buy this, whether you get it on Amazon or get it from us or get it from Curtis. Somehow, get it and watch it. Your basic presentation, Curtis – I see it in the headlines everywhere we look. I see your video – the outcroppings of the headlines that make your video so important. It’s there everywhere. What’s your basic premise and then let’s talk a little bit about applications and some things that are happening right now. A lot of things have happened since you’ve done that just to further add credit to what you’re saying.

Curtis: Yeah, they keep gaining momentum because it doesn’t hurt having control of the educational system. Every year that goes by you just have more and more people that have been taught to think and believe the things that you believe in so it’s just continued us down that same road. The reason I made it is I wanted people to see what I found out, that it hasn’t been an accident. The reason that it’s so important is I think too many Americans – good, conservative, patriotic Americans – think “America’s just falling apart … that’s just the way things go.” When you think that, you’re very unlikely to act to do anything because it’s out of your control. But when you can see, carefully laid out like I tried to do, showing the roots of this, why they have the influence they do and how they have accomplished what they’ve accomplished, my hope and prayer was that people are going to see it and say “my goodness, we’ve had the enemy inside of America that is far more dangerous than anything outside of America.” Then hopefully motivate them to action, to do something to get involved in what’s going on, because our country needs us right now. We have enjoyed the benefits of growing up in the most wonderful country that has ever existed and if we are so lazy and apathetic that we don’t spend the time and money and energy to get involved, we’re going to lose that. What a shame that is for our children and grandchildren.

Bill: How are you defining – if we say “part of our problem today is Communism,” people are going to say “you’re Joe McCarthy and you see them behind every bush …” I’m sure you’ve been accused of that but the truth is, while McCarthy was a little nuts at times, he did find the people that he was looking for. The records clearly stated that he found what he was looking for.

Curtis: And he didn’t even tap the surface.

Bill: I don’t think he tapped the surface either, for whatever reason.

Curtis: M. Stanton Evans’ book, “Blacklisted by History” is a seven year research book by Mr. Evans on exactly the whole witch hunt of Joseph McCarthy, showing that the only person that was destroyed by McCarthyism is himself.

Bill: At home, I have some of the congressional investigations, in black and white – these old reels that I got from Appleton. It’s got Elizabeth Bentley and these guys on it, from the hearing. You can watch people say the same things that Whittaker Chambers – and if people don’t know, if no one’s read Whittaker Chambers – you have to read that book. You’ve got to know where a lot of the Republican Party started. You’ve got to recognize an honest man when you see one. That is one of the best books that I’ve ever read, if you want to know current events. The Evans book – I haven’t read it but I know M. Stanton Evans so it has to be good. What do you think, for example, as you’re talking about “things are Communist” – we don’t label things Communist anymore so we think that that’s gone, is that part of your premise? It’s part of mine.

Curtis: Right. And, most people pushing these ideas wouldn’t even know what a Communist is. [laughs] If you were like, “you’re a Communist …” That term has gone out of style because even the left can’t deny the atrocities that took place in the 20th Century. They tried to ignore them but the hundreds of millions of people slaughtered under Communism – they’re like “we better not use that word anymore.” The new term they use openly is progressives and progressivism. That’s even if you go to the Communist Party USA website, almost all of the activities and things they support there and are promoting are progressive. The name has progressive in the name somewhere. That’s their new term. But here’s a key thing to remember too. This film and those of us talking right now, we’re not saying all these people are communists either. This is the bottom line – it’s the communistic ideas, the Marxist ideas – that have been repackaged and sold through political correctness and other things that are going to end in the same game as communism did, but of course it’s not being called that. The vast majority, which I clearly point out in the DVD, are what would be termed “the useful idiots.” That’s not just being derogatory of them, that’s what Lenin even talked about – and what he meant by that, he goes “if the people we’re going to get to push our ideas forward but they have no idea of the big picture. They have no idea of what we’re trying to accomplish through doing this and the power we’re going to take and enslave everyone even though we’re preaching a gospel of everyone’s going to be equal in everything they do.” But we’ve already seen it played out in history and that, of course, is not the case. We’re all equally poor while there’s a very small, elite that controls everything. That’s their end-game goal – it’s a lust for power which is hard for an average guy to understand.

Bill: It’s not even a new idea. I think there was the Mazatec movement in Persia – I don’t know if it was the 5th or 6th Century, where the idea came around, Curtis, where “we’re going to collectivize everything.” Everything was collectivized – land, money, women. Persia was a very wealthy society and that totally decimated Persia. One of the reasons Persia became fully Islamic is that weakened them to such an extent that when the Turks came they just kicked their butt because no one wanted to fight back. It totally – I know the 6th Century is quite a ways before Gramsci, but Gramsci could have predicted that that would have happened. We should talk about him because everything he says that he wanted to have happen to America happened to Persia during that period and actually happened to the Puritans that came to this country too. When they started out, they started out running – I think because of their charter – where they were going to share common gardens, and it almost killed them all.

Curtis: That’s right.

Bill: Every time we run into this thing, it’s not just an alternative way of looking at things. The point you’re making is it’s killing people – killing people by the millions. Whether you call that progressivism or communism or whatever, this is not a polite thing. People end up dead as a result of it.

Curtis: Right, because man is naturally going to do as little as possible to get by. That’s just our fallen nature. Because of that, those ideas appeal to us, when you say “we’re going to share everything equally, it’s going to be fair.” those are very appealing to us, especially even as Christians – “we want things to be fair and just.” That’s why they package their ideas in those terms, social justice and things like that, because it instantly pulls us in – “we’re for justice.” But, again, you see throughout history, it never works and it always – this is the thing too, that the left doesn’t seem to get – it always hurts the most the people that are at the bottom that they claim to be helping. That’s the real travesty in it.

Bill: How do you think atheistic communism could have a concept of justice? That’s intriguing to me. What’s their appeal to justice, in your mind?

Brian: Curtis, before you answer that, because I want to be able to get the full answer in, we’re going to run to a quick commercial break. When we come back, Bill Heid continues our discussion with Mr. Curtis Bowers, right after this short break.

[0:23:43 – 0:27:59 break]

Brian: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Off the Grid News – the radio version of Today, in case you’re just joining us, we’re here with Mr. Curtis Bowers, the producer, the director. When you look at the credits, you even had a role in the cinematography as well, it seems, of “Agenda: Grinding America Down,” an award-winning documentary that’s just – Bill, there was one time I was watching a documentary and I got up and I actually started pacing in front of the television.

Bill: This one will make you mad.

Brian: What was that other one? Remember I called you that one time? “Inside Job” about bringing the markets down. You can’t sit still and watch it. You’re pacing back and forth, you’re throwing Nerf footballs at the TV.

Bill: You won’t even have markets to bring down if the stuff Curtis is talking about didn’t exist. This is – make you get up and walk back and forth, especially when we talk about the legacy that we’re leaving our children. I think that’s really the issue. Let’s go back to before the break, we were talking about how does a Marxist, whose premise is atheism – there is no God – he’s positing this idea that there’s no transcendent power to appeal to for justice, yet they appeal to justice. Curtis – you’re a Marxist, let’s pretend you’re arguing with me there, what’s your comeback going to be if I say that to you?

Curtis: What you’re saying is correct. That’s the thing that’s so contradictory is that they’re striving for these principles that have a foundation in truth but then they deny the very existence of truth … that’s why what you get when you practice it isn’t what they say. That’s why you don’t get the utopia they promise, never ever, because what they are selling is simply … the words are words but they don’t mean anything to them, in the reality of it, even though they pull the masses in by “we’re for social justice and economic justice, shared prosperity,” using all those terms …

Bill: Curtis, what did President Obama say? “We want to spread the wealth around a little bit.” Do you remember when he said that?

Curtis: Totally.

Bill: That’s a Marxist talking. Now, whether you want to say he doesn’t carry a card, he’s not a Communist … your premise is, we’re not name calling him a communist, we’re saying he’s espousing these same principles, whether he understands that or not. My guess – I don’t know whether he’s self-conscious or whether he isn’t – but wouldn’t you say, he’s doing the things that you’re talking about?

Curtis: Absolutely. That’s the thing too, we’re not saying he’s a Marxist or a communist, what we’re saying is this: President Obama, as well as most of his cabinet, many members of Congress and Senate, and millions of Americans, are pushing forward these Marxist ideas – maybe not knowing what they are because, again, they’ve been packaged in phrases that we are attracted to because they sound good. Because of the political correctness, they’ve repackaged these things – the same evil that Stalin slaughtering 45 million of his own people – they’ve just repackaged it. Many people that are naïve and don’t have real-world – it’s always very attractive to younger people that don’t have real-life experience yet, to realize that “that idea sounds well but it doesn’t work because I’ve worked with enough people and had enough jobs and had enough real-life experiences to see things don’t work that way.” You can’t pay people to exist and expect them to still be productive. They’re not going to be.

Bill: It kind of makes sense with President Obama in some sense – I’m trying to give him … I know his pedigree because I’ve watched your film, but I’m trying to give him a little bit of the benefit of the doubt and say his father was someone who hated colonialism so it makes sense that the pendulum would get pushed the other way in him seeking to see the injustice that occurred during some times of colonialism. He kicks that back quite a bit and he runs into these guys that are self-conscious. There’s no Bill Ayers in these guys and Alinsky… dedicating your book to Lucifer—they’re not even … as you say in your film, it’s one thing if it’s a conspiracy but it’s another thing if you just do it in open. I don’t see these guys trying to hide anything other than language cloaking. They’re using different language patterns. Maybe if there’s a conspiratorial element it would be there, but other than that …

Curtis: I agree. That’s what shocked me, I think, while I was researching for this film is everything I found was in their books and their speeches and their articles. It wasn’t like I was trying to interpret what they really meant or what they really said. No, in their own words what they were saying is “we are going to dismantle this country …” Again, they are talking from the point of view that that’s a good thing because America is evil, it’s unjust, it’s not fair, women aren’t treated right, minorities aren’t treated right, nobody’s treated right. It’s just not a just society. Back with what you said on Obama, I agree with you. It’s my opinion that he – again, not derogatorily of our president – I don’t like his policies, but we still should be respectful of the office. He, I believe, is a useful idiot and what I mean by that is he has known nothing else except these Marxist ideas since the day he was born. His grandparents were radicals, his parents were radicals. All his mentors, his college professors, the colleges he went to – Occidental, Columbia, Harvard – all radical schools. The programs he was in, the jobs he’s had with ACORN and working for Saul Alinsky’s Industrial Foundation – everything – he has never heard anything from our side that’s not talked about in a derogatory way. I think he really, truly believes in his heart America is one of the most evil countries that has ever existed. That’s why he wants to fundamentally transform it. I really believe that. You just study his life and you go “he has never heard the other side of the story, ever.” If he has, it’s from someone that hates it so they would talk about what we believe in as how evil it is. I think he is the perfect case in point for how effective they have taken over the institutions of our culture to influence us to become the socialist man they want.

Bill: There’s a couple of different ways you can go and you point them out wonderfully in your film. If you believe these things, you can start throwing Molotov Cocktails – that’s one way, and certainly this has happened in countries that have fallen to communism. You can become violent and radical. But you touch on a name that gets touched on very little in the history books. If you went to public school you don’t know who this man is. But touch on Antonio Gramsci a little bit and talk about why he’s probably smiling right now with a president like President Obama. Who was he and give us a brief little talk about him. He is one of the most important figures to understand for Americans today because you’re seeing his world view played out right in front of you like a movie.

Curtis: Antonio Gramsci wrote the playbook that the left has been using since the 1930s. He was very clever and smart in realizing – he, back in the 1920s, went to Lenin, who was the head of the Soviet Union and said “listen, if you want to keep taking over these countries, you’re not going to be able to – the countries that have a foundation and a belief in God – you are not going to be able to stir them up into a radical Marxist revolution. Simply because of their belief in God they will not do that.” Lenin didn’t believe him because he told him “you’re going to have to influence the culture to change them from within.” Lenin said “get out of here.” So Antonio Gramsci went back to Italy and was thrown in jail by Mussolini. While he was in jail, he wrote over 2000 pages called “Notes from Prison” – a book – that outlined how to take a Judeo-Christian culture down from the inside. It carefully talked about getting control of the schools and the entertainment and the media and penetrating those things and influencing people to change us from the inside. Then he goes, “you will create a man that not only will allow big government, but he’ll want and need big government.” It was ingenious. He realized that’s the only way to take down a Judeo-Christian culture because you’ve got to take down the families, you’ve got to take down the churches. You have to take down those things because if you have strong families and strong churches they will never buy into what we’re selling.

Bill: Because it’s just the opposite world view. You can’t simultaneously – people can call themselves Christians who are Marxist, but you can’t simultaneously say “I’m an atheist and I’m not an atheist.” well, I guess maybe in an insane asylum or in a post-modern world, maybe that makes sense, you can be a Christian porn star or you can be a Marxist Christian, I suppose, but it’s not true.

Curtis: Exactly. And that’s where we’re heading where we have such an ignorant population, for the most part, especially in the Christian community, that anyone mentions the name of Jesus – anybody mentions something of a bible verse or something – “that must be a good person,” like the Reverend Jim Wallis who’s a radical Marxist. He’s going around talking to all our Christian colleges and many of the churches in America. “Well he mentions Jesus,” but he happens to say “Jesus is for Communism” and Jesus is for all this foolishness. He’s twisted the bible to use it because he knows he can use it as a tool to get their main enemy on their side, because they know conservative Christians have been their main enemy since they started. They go “if we can’t be ‘em, join ‘em. We’re going to infiltrate their churches and push things to the left.” And boy have they successfully done that.

Brian: Ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to run to a quick commercial break. Believe it or not, this will be the final segment coming back with Mr. Curtis Bowers, right after this short break.

[0:38:29 – 0:42:50 break]

Brian: ladies and gentlemen, welcome back, unfortunately to our final segment here at Off the Grid News Radio. Here today with Mr. Curtis Bowers – the producer, the director – even the editor of “Agenda: Grinding America Down.” Curtis, I’m hoping that you’re going to talk to us a little about the sequel, maybe calling this one “Waking America Up.” The first one was “Grinding America Down” because we need to wake up, good golly.

Curtis: Absolutely right. We’re still figuring out exactly which direction to go, but that’s one of the possibilities to really focus on – what we need to do to take things back after what they’ve already done. I’ve got stacks and stacks of notes and articles, trying to figure out – there’s so many different directions you can go, that would be very interesting …

Bill: I’ll bet you get some emails, Curtis. I’ll bet you get some exciting emails from people that say “I think you ought to do this …” I’ll bet it’s pretty animated sometimes – or people hate you and call you names and stuff as well.

Curtis: I’m always open for suggestions, it’s helpful knowing what people think.

Bill: Well we think what you did there was wonderful. Really, I think more than you making another one, it’s our listeners and their friends – if you can make this viral, if you can get this into the hands of your friends and go into your community and watch it … it’s over an hour – maybe an hour and 20 minutes or something – so maybe it’s a bit much for an average American to take in at once. It’s not like a colonial American that would go listen to a sermon that was three or four hours long and not think anything of it. You better break it into 20 minute sections and then have some kind of brownies or something … and just talk about it. I think it’s one of the best things you can do. You want to change America – don’t – what did Dostoevsky say? “Clean up your garage.” Don’t try to change somebody in Washington, folks. Try to change your neighbor, your friend, your obstinate brother-in-law – anybody that’s around you. That’s the way Christianity works, from the bottom-up, not from the top-down. Every top-down thing gives you total wackiness. You can’t impose rules on people that don’t want them imposed. We’ve got to build this back from the bottom-up.

Brian: And instead of slamming the Kool-Aid maker, how about stop drinking the Kool-Aid. “I’ve had it with those Kool-Aid manufacturers in DC …” as you suck down another sip of Kool-Aid, complaining about the people that made it for you and fed it to you in the first place. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

Curtis: A key thing – what you just mentioned – that’s the whole reason I made this film, is for people – maybe they even do know what’s going on, but to have a tool they can use to inform and educate those around them – family, friends, people you work with. In 90 minutes, they will have a full history of what has happened, why it has happened and how important it is that we get involved to make a difference.

Bill: I think it’s extremely important and it’s in the news. We’ve only got so much time but I wanted to get back to this idea of how you get crazier and crazier, higher and higher budgets, how you get a more immoral and immoral populace because of communism. What Fred – our old mutual friend, Fred, taught me was that what Karl Marx did was take Feuerbachian materialism – Feuerbach said “you are what you eat” – and he combined it with Hegelian, the Hegelian dialectic. He said “I’m going to merge these two things and this is my formula.” first of all, if you’re materialist you’re an atheist, that part we know where it’s coming from. But where I see Hegel operative every day is this idea of this thesis, anti-thesis or antithesis and then synthesis. In other words, if someone wants your stuff, Curtis, if you’ve got $500 and they want all of that, and you say “no, that’s mine; thou shalt not steal …” and you give them some reasons why. They say “we’ll meet you in the middle and take $250” and let’s say they’re the government and they can use the power of the sword to extract that from you, the new synthesis is Curtis now has $250 less than he had before, compliments of Hegel or God walking on earth, as he would posit. Isn’t that what this is all about? Isn’t that the essence of grinding something down, by always splitting the middle all the time?

Curtis: Absolutely. That’s what they’ve been doing since FDR and Woodrow Wilson. They’ll push their agenda hard even more than they’re wanting to take to begin with. They’ll push it, push it, push it until the resistance builds up against them and then they step back and say “I’m sorry, that was too much. Why don’t we just compromise here in the middle? Aren’t you willing to compromise with us?” And we try to be nice guys as patriot Americans, we don’t know everything and we try to get along so we’re like “oh, OK,” and we end up compromising. Maybe it’s halfway, maybe it’s a quarter of the way, but it’s always moving in their direction. That’s what’s been happening for the last 70-80 years. I t has never turned back the other direction because they’re so good at using this Hegelian dialectic to push, push, push and then “let’s compromise. Let’s get along. Let’s work together. Let’s be bipartisan.” It’s crazy but they’ve really used it.

Bill: The next thing you know, you owe $100 trillion and your country’s debauched and destroyed. There’s no way we’ll ever pay that back so they’ve already used it as a tool to destroy us. No one other than Ron Paul that I know that’s standing up and saying “give me liberty or give me death. I’m drawing a line through here,” though there’s some good new Tea Party folks and let’s hope they stay strong. Let’s talk about the church for a second. The Hegelian dialectic operative in the church – used to have a church that had sound doctrine, used to have a church that had church discipline, which is one of the things that makes a church a church. Because of this, what have you got? What’s in the church today?

Curtis: It’s just a social gospel. Jesus, the bible, the Ten Commandments have all been thrown out because those aren’t friendly, those can be offensive to people. We’ve compromised down to “let’s just be loving.” They’ve taken just a teeny part of the bible and not having all the other principles that go with the “being kind and loving” and that’s all it’s become now.

Bill: Let’s think about it for a second. If someone says to you “thou shalt not steal,” again back to the metaphor, and that’s a prescriptive commandment, how can you say “I’m going to meet you half way”? Yet that’s what they’re doing.

Curtis: Right. And they’ll take other verses out of context – “we’re supposed to be helping the poor” – which we are individually and with our own will to do that, but government’s not supposed to be doing that. That’s robbing us of the charity and it’s robbing the poor person of the accountability that comes with the charity that changes their life. That’s why no one ever gets out of government entanglement and dependence – ever – because there’s no accountability with it because it’s coming from a blind machine that’s just keeping them on the dole to get their vote instead of the neighbor, the guy down the street, that walks by the homeless guy and says “did you go apply for that job today? I’ll take you over there. Here’s some lunch but I need you to be dependable.” Whereas that accountability, where that person can’t sit there day after day, because someone is holding them accountable for their laziness. But again, they’ve robbed us of all that because they don’t want that. They want us to be all separate islands and they’re the resource for everything that we need. Many people have bought into that.

Brian: What did Tim Geithner say the other day, guys? Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner said “you can’t shut us down. We send out 80 million or some number of checks every month.

Bill: He’s fear mongering. He’s playing a big card.

Brian: To Curtis’s point though, “we’ll keep giving you the money, just keep doing this.”

Bill: But I think you both made a great point and the point is we can blame the church and the pastors and we should, and we can blame folks like Alinsky and all of the people that you mentioned in your video – Wallis and Marx. The problem for a lot of people is – Brian and I talk about this constantly – is the idea of personal responsibility. There’s a part of us that kind of likes that, likes getting a check, likes having life a little easier. If I can get Curtis to work a little harder in the Puritan garden, then I can go over there and do something on my own, right Curtis? Don’t you think it’s all of us too? It’s like we’re infected with something.

Curtis: That’s why they’re successful. If they had no appeal to it they couldn’t sell it to anybody. No, it is appealing. It’s appealing to me. I go “I wish we could have a world like that,” but then you have to be a student of history to see that that world is not possible here on earth because man is corrupted, he is naturally selfish, he is naturally always going to be looking after number one. That’s why you can’t do that. The bible is clear about that – if you don’t work, you die – very clearly. There’s compassion in the bible, there’s also standing up and saying simply “you must do what you’re supposed to be doing.”

Bill: Yeah, you must participate in charity out of your own volition – that’s not a civil issue where the government tells you you have to be charitable, that’s between you and God, but it’s a law nonetheless, folks. You are required to be charitable if you’re a Christian, so you have to do that. Every place we go, every area of life, we see this constant splitting. Instead of a parent disciplining their child, they meet their child halfway. The next thing you know you have a totally destroyed society. I want to go back to Persia. When the Turks came in there was no will to resist because all lines of authority were broken down. All biblical lines of authority were broken down. They came in and walked all over Persia. You could walk all over us. Maybe not quite today. There’s a few ornery folks, like Curtis or Brian, but for the most part it wouldn’t take much to walk over this country if you were a foreign power.

Curtis: Right. We’ve become very lazy and so self-absorbed. Even those on our side – sports and things like that which everyone enjoys – they have become way too important.

Bill: Lebron. Lebron and “the decision.” Remember? People were begging him like he was a god, Curtis. Remember that?

Brian: Hey Lebron, you can’t get the crown without a ring, baby.

Curtis: It’s just like Rome. They had the bread and circuses. They gave them enough to eat and they entertained them and they became satisfied with that and they just crumbled from within because you can’t have a society based on that. It has to be based on the higher character qualities of serving others. That’s why America was the most successful that it ever existed because that Judeo-Christian ethic was ingrained in everyone, whether they were Christian or not. It was so in our culture it penetrated everybody. So … he knew “you really need to tell the truth. I shouldn’t say bad things in front of children. I should be respectful of ladies.” They would naturally do those things. When they were doing things that they knew they shouldn’t be doing, they’d always do it in the dark. They’d go into the bars to do that or they’d go out at nighttime. They wouldn’t do it in front of children because they’d be ashamed of their actions. But there is no shame anymore.

Bill: You’ve got a tool here for the revolution. I’m going to pass this over to Brian. Brian, here’s something that Don McAlvany wrote. Maybe read that top part about “this is being a tool about agenda,” and we can sign off. And, Curtis, can we have you back maybe and do something on Gramsci Do maybe a whole show on him? I think it’s worth it because people need to know the truth about that. We’d love to have you back on to really dig into that a little bit more. Brian’s got a little piece that I got in Don’s newsletter, that little top portion, about “this being a tool …”

Brian: And then, Curtis, needless to say, when you want to break the news of the sequel and the title and when it’s going to be out, you’re welcome to come back on our show and do it. We’ll help spread the word for sure. Here’s what Bill just handed me – “Tools for the Revolution. This isn’t simply a political, social or even economic war. This is a fight to preserve the free world as we know it. Only one thing is certain. Unless patriots like you and I stand up for freedom now, all will be lost. To win, it is imperative that we arm ourselves with the tools to fight. This essential DVD lays the groundwork for the battle ahead.”

Bill: He couldn’t have said it any better. That’s what it is. It’s a tool and it lays it out, essentially. Really, our listeners need to get it – get it at Amazon, get it from us, get it from Curtis. Somehow get it.

Brian: I would paraphrase that to say, Curtis, from Milton’s “Paradise Lost,” awake, arise or be forever fallen. So if you’re looking for a quote to open up your next documentary – I’m sure you get all kinds of emails – but that would be my vote – awake, arise or be forever fallen.

Curtis: I like it.

Brian: Alright, Curtis, we’re going to have to run unfortunately. Man, that hour flew by. Any last thought that we can get real quick? We’ve got about 30 seconds.

Curtis: We can’t give up. We’re in a bad situation, our country’s disintegrating, but I think if we do what we can do and educate and inform those around us and pray that God will have mercy on our country, I think he could still spare us and still enjoy a couple of hundred more years of freedom.

Brian: Well, we’ll leave it on that note. Still optimism – there is still hope. Curtis Bowers, thank you so very much. Congratulations to yourself and to your family, everyone that helped you on “Agenda: Grinding America Down.” You can get it, as Bill said, at, also just come on over – you’re a click away from – we have it there as well. Speaking of Off the Grid, thank you for always listening. We really appreciate all of your contact information, you reach out to us via Facebook or sending us your questions, your comments, your critiques at info@offthegridnews. Also, Jeremy’s worked real hard. We’ve got a new and improved Facebook page. We’re looking forward to hanging out with you there at And, of course, thank you for following us on Twitter @offgridnews. On behalf of everyone here at Off the Grid News, thank you so very much for giving us an hour of your day. We look forward to seeing you again soon.

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