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What Does It Really Mean to be Off the Grid? with Jan Ross and Dave Young – Episode 082

We talk a lot about preparation, about gardening, about shoring up finances, about learning to live off the grid and how to survive with less. However, even in the hardest hit, storm-ravaged areas of the country, we are not without a support system. Even as dire as the aftermath of Katrina was, even as this past summer the great Mississippi river wiped out homes and communities all along its path with floodwaters, even as tornadoes cut a swath of destruction across the deep South, we have never been without the support and help of fellow citizens. We have never lived for months or years relying solely on our wits or what we could pull from the dirt.

Off The Grid Radio
Ep 082
Released: December 30, 2011

Bill: Greetings and welcome, everybody. It’s Bill Heid. Happy new year to all of you from Off the Grid News Radio. Today we’ve got some special guests on – guests that I’m honored to have on. We’ve got Dave Young and Jan Ross from Heart of God International Ministries. We’re going to be talking about primarily the Haiti ministry but wanted to play some catch-up and find out what was going on all year with the kids in Haiti that we’ve sponsored and we’ve spent some time talking to them about. Before the show, we were talking about being dealt cards and playing the cards that you were dealt with. We had some sound problems and … they were both chuckling because in the world that they live in, and the world of Haiti and the world of missions abroad, many cases the cards you’re dealt with aren’t the cards that the typical American’s dealt with. Jan, welcome. And Dave, welcome.

Jan: Thank you very much.

Dave: Thanks, Bill. Good to be here again.

Bill: Great to have you guys. As the year end – as we close this year out – I think it would be great to find out what’s going on with the Heart of God Ministry and then I also wanted to tell everybody that if you hear this story and you’d like to donate for the end of the year, one of the reasons I asked these guys to come on is I think this is one of those organizations where the money goes to where you want it to go. There’s not any middle men, it just goes there and it helps people. If you want to help these kids in Haiti like we have – I’d also like to make the offer that any gifts that you’d like to send in to Heart of God that we will match by the end of the year and into next year is fine as well. A lot of people want to make year-end tax gifts. Be advised that we’d be happy here at Solutions from Science to make the matching pledge. Dave, why don’t you tell us – or Jan – I don’t know which of you guys want to tell the story to bring us up to date and tell us where we’re at?

Dave: Bill, it’s been an amazing year. I’ll start back a little bit about a year ago, you were gracious enough to have Jan and I out at your location. I was able to meet all of the people who actually built the solar generator. It made its way down to Haiti. A couple of amazing things happened since then. Right as we got to meet with you, the security situation in Haiti was breaking down significantly. To bring people back, the end of November – November 28th of 2010 – they were having their first round of election cycles and that was the first round. As a result, gangs were bidding for their different control and what candidate was going with who. As the security broke down, unfortunately the NGO support – the non-government organization support, our supply chains, where we were getting some food – that also broke down. It left our people in a situation where they were on their own. As you’ll recall, after the earthquake, we moved them so they had a new location but they were in a difficult situation. One of the things that was an amazing timing was two things happened when I was with you. One, you had given us a gift and the amount of that gift was $10,000, which was precisely the amount of money we ultimately needed to move. We didn’t know what we were going to need that money for, but to the penny, that was the exact amount of money we ended up needing to have down the road when we ended up moving our folks. One of your listeners from Alabama – she gave us a gift that basically paid for the food for the month of January 2011, which bought us some time so we could figure out – go back and figure out a new plan so we could figure out how we were going to take care of the situation now that we have a situation where our compound is surrounded by bad guys, we have no NGO support, no way to feed our folks. We were able to …

Bill: Dave, go back and tell everybody why the NGO support dropped? It’s basically a situation where it gets so dangerous that they can’t operate. It’s not as if they just decided to leave, but it’s just a life and death issue, right?

Dave: Exactly, Bill. What happened is, the NGOs – they’re only going to take so much risk. The bad guys basically shut down the area where our center was. They started controlling the roads and they started targeting the NGO vehicles. They’d see the vehicle come in and they would ambush it. They would take the stuff inside the vehicle, take the vehicle. Oftentimes, kidnap the driver. Basically, after that happened a few times, all of the NGOs in that area pulled their support out of Haiti until the situation became less risky and more secure. Now, one of the interesting things that – as we forward the timeline a little bit, as January and February rolled around, the situations became even more desperate and we actually had sent our team out to go out and get support, even our folks got ambushed. We sent three pastors out to go out and get provisions for our people and on the way out – I should say on the return trip, our team got ambushed. That was the decision point that left us with the decision that we have to move. Thanks to Solutions from Science, we had the resources. When that happened, we had a decision. One of my learning points in this whole thing – the army always taught us to shoot, move and communicate – communicate is a major factor. Through all of this, we were able to maintain our communications with our team through a Skype account and a laptop and our little satellite link-up that was powered by the solar generator. At times it was bizarre because I could – Pastor Dicksent would be huddled in the center and if I had him on Skype he’d say “I can hear gunfire right now. There’s people getting … they’re shooting up near the compound.” All of this while I’m literally Skyping him and/or I could text him on his cell phone or talk to him on his phone, but Skyping was the most efficient and the least expensive way. Through that, we were able to find a new location up in the Kenscoff area which is up in the mountains of Haiti. We moved them up there towards the end of April and we actually had to set up a deception plan because these bad guys – they knew something was up. They knew that we had resources. They had tried to send a bad guy over the compound wall to breach our defenses. We had to use force to prevent that situation from escalating. We set up a plan where they felt we were leaving at a different time and under the cover of darkness, literally in the middle of night, we set up a convoy and moved our people out. When they came back when they thought we were going to move, the compound was empty and all our people were safely up in the mountains.

Bill: These are the mountains that are up closer to the Dominican Republic?

Dave: No, these are the mountains – I’d say we’re about 45 minutes outside of Port-au-Prince, directly outside of Port-au-Prince but up in the mountains. We’re not too far from the Dominican but we’re still pretty close to, as the crow flies, to Port-au-prince, but we’re much more at a higher altitude, way up – it’s more of a agricultural area, a lot more space. With the resources, we have a much bigger location now. We have an area where we can farm now. We have a much safer place for our people to operate out of. Where we are now is a quantum leap ahead of where we were before. Even leaving our old location was a tough decision because the people in the community where we were, were very friendly towards us and we were spreading the gospel and we were setting up medical services and we had the school and the orphanage going. But the security situation made it untenable??[0:09:03] there. It was too much of a danger for our children. Once we moved, we became friends again with the community. We started church services, regularly going in. We set up camp at the new location. Along the way, one of the amazing gifts that was given to us, was the resources in order to build a well or get a well put in. Having the well was a true blessing because the gift of water is really a gift of life down there, because we were able to get a clean source of water. We didn’t have to pay $150 a week to bring in water and we were able – to have a supply of water, even if you can pay $150, at any given time your supply of water could be cut because of any number of things – shortages in fuel, the vehicles can’t make it up because the gangs control the road – you name it and it can happen. Almost living in Haiti is a great microcosm to totally living off the grid. When I hear your program, I think to myself that you could do a case study in what we’ve been through these past two years since the earthquake and how to really live, literally, off the grid. If you can live in Haiti off the grid, you can live anywhere off the grid.

Bill: Sure. With the gangs and everything. You’re in a more secure place now.

Dave: Absolutely. We’re in a much more secure place now. That affords us the ability to really now start to go out and get NGO support. One of the things that we need to get done pretty quickly, and we’re in the process of doing this now, is getting what they call a Certificate of Orphanage. Initially we were set up at the school and, of course, the earthquake destroyed all the infrastructure. Last year, when we finally got a new president – and really this past fall when we got a new prime minister – now that we have a new government in place, the new government wants all of these orphanages to have Certificates of Orphanage. We’re in that process and we should have that certificate, we hope, by the middle of January. That will afford us the ability to go out and get the NGO support. Right now, since the government requires you to have a Certificate of Orphanage, the NGOs also require that. We’re unable to get NGO support unless we have the Certificate of Orphanage, now that we have an existing government with this rule in place. The government has that rule in place specifically because a significant problem with trafficking – human trafficking – down in Haiti. The rules are in place such that they make sure that you’re not doing that kind of stuff and that your orphanage meets some minimum standards, which we do and we will.

Bill: Dave, it’s not just an exercise in bureaucracy. There’s some good reasons why.

Dave: Yeah, there’s some good reason for it. The issue becomes somewhat frustrating because now you don’t know how long that process can – now you have a lot of things queued up, a lot of other people in the same line as us. We’re hoping by the middle of January, but we’re also aware that it could take a lot longer than that as well. Anything is possible. We understand why they’re doing it and it makes a lot of sense, but at the same token it could take a significant amount of time simply because you’re talking about a slow-moving government, at best, with not a whole lot of technology or resources available to them. But in the meantime, we’ll keep going on with our mission and whatever God wants will happen. God will open or close the doors as He sees fit. If He wants us to have an orphanage, we will. If He wants us to plant churches and spread the gospel and have a school, we’ll do that as well. But right now, we have 60 kids. When you and I spoke last, we had 77 kids. We had taken 17 of our older kids and found them work. We got them jobs in the farming – in agriculture. They had a baseline education that we were able to give them a couple of years before we sent them out. Now they’re ambassadors for the Lord because they understand the gospel and we put them through a Spanish language school immersion for three months. Actually, in early January 2012 they’ll start working at the farm where we moved them to. We have 17 kids that were able to find employment and start earning a living right now. Now we’re down to 60 kids – 48 girls and 12 boys.

Bill: Very nice. Dave, what’s the age that kids go start to work? I know that might come as a shock to people here, but how young?

Dave: It’s a range. At the age of 13, there’s a term they call “age out.” Once you’re 13 years old, you’re no longer eligible to become adopted, typically, out of Haiti. You typically, as you get to be 13, 14, 15 years old, in that range, is when we move the kids out of the orphanage, because they’re becoming – from Haitian standards – adults. The 17 kids that we moved out were all ages 15 to 17 years old. As our demographics – we have mostly younger kids. We don’t have anyone who’s 13 and 14 right now, but as they get to be that age, that’s the age where we start trying to find alternative locations for them and find alternative employment for them.

Bill: What happens – let’s get kind of gritty here – this is unfortunate that this is the case – but there’s a lot of orphanages in Haiti. Most of them, particularly in the Port-au-Prince area, what happens to kids – boys and girls – when they’re 13 years old and they have to be kicked out? What generally happens?

Dave: Unfortunately, that happens a lot. This is where you get into trafficking. Depending on – the girls, unfortunately, can be sold. Oftentimes they fall into prostitution. The boys, unfortunately, out of survival mode, turn to the gangs. The gangs will take over their “parental figures” for them but, unfortunately, they’re stuck doing unsavory things. As a sad story, when I was down there in April of 2010, we had a person that was working for us – a young man who worked with us. After we left, he fell into the gangs and unfortunately was killed as a result of being in the gang. That was just since the earthquake. Oftentimes, the kids are literally put on the street. They’re said “here’s the door. You’ve been given your last meal. Leave.” They have no place to go and they fall into a world of crime. That’s unfortunately what can happen down there.

Bill: And when the division of labor breaks down, you don’t have jobs. I think – we don’t want to be mass, wild-eyed prognosticators, but you’d mentioned earlier that in this country – so many of our listeners obviously are trying to get off the grid – when there’s a social breakdown, there’s currency value to this understanding Haiti. Number one, we need to help those in need. Number two, I think for our listeners to see just exactly what happens when a culture breaks down. I think the danger, again Dave and Jan – and Jan, you’ve been all over the world as well. You’ve been in Africa – but I think the danger here is for people, Americans – white or black – to think “that’s them. If we got hungry, we would never behave in such a way. If we lost our jobs, we would never behave in such a way.” Personally, I just don’t think that’s true. I think people are people, whether you’re in Africa, whether you’re in Haiti, whether you’re in the United States. If conditions present themselves, oftentimes we’ll see the worst of what humans are capable of. Do you guys want to comment on that a little bit?

Dave: Bill, that’s exactly right. What you saw happen, just as the security situation broke down – you had the earthquake that happened in January 12, 2010 and then up through – maybe from then forward, you had a little bit of hope but as the veneer – as things broke down, people got more and more desperate. Our compound was a little bit like the Alamo. You’re surrounded by bad guys. Wherever you go, they’re watching, they were looking for a weakness and they’re going to attack it. We literally had to harden our area, almost as if it was an army operation, where you had different rings of security and you had different things set up, where the bad guys knew that we were a hardened target because if they didn’t, they would attack, whether you were an orphanage and you had nothing in there other than children and food for them. That was not their concern. They’re looking to attack and take whatever they can for themselves. Unfortunately, what you do see is, at times, the worst of humans as they’re just trying to survive. They will look for a weakness. Like I said, we had people trying to climb the compound walls and we had to have a security guard fire a shotgun over his head to send a warning shot saying that the next shot won’t be over your head. As a result of that, they then stopped testing our defenses and would move on, unfortunately for the next person, to an easier target.

Bill: That’s a great point. Just like petty thieves, if you’ve got sufficient locks on your house, or cameras or whatever, they’ll always go to take the weaker, easier course. If there’s a social breakdown, the same thing’s true. I like the idea that you’re saying “we need to put our faith in God but we need to keep our compound hardened.” I think it was Cromwell that said “put your faith in God but keep your powder dry.” Jan, what did you see in Africa? I heard you chime in there – what happened in Africa on your most recent trip? You had some tough goes as well.

Jan: We’ve encountered many different things in Africa and India and other places we’ve been. The point I was going to make was the fact that mankind is created in the image of God, but we’re a fallen people. We will act according to whatever’s going to allow us to survive, especially those that aren’t trusting in God. You find that same pattern of behavior no matter where you are. It’s all about survival. People who are desperate do desperate things. Usually those desperate things are not things that we would recommend people doing but you see that in any culture. United States is no different. If and when – and I believe there will be a time when – our systems break down, we’re going to find people acting exactly the same way. No longer will we be able to snub our noses at other cultures and look down at them saying “how can they do that?” We tend to be very derogatory toward other people and their behavior, not understanding what they’re going through. But the day will come where people here in the United States will be acting the same way simply because they want to survive. We see that in Africa. We see it in India. People are desperate and desperate people, like I said, do desperate things.

Bill: I think it’s only the Christian paradigm – I’ll get some heat for saying this, but that’s OK – that offers a “keep your powder dry and put your faith in God.” I think we have to continue to be charitable. We have to continue to be ready. So much of preparedness, as I see it, focuses on material, physical things. We need those things. We need to learn how to garden. We should have – even FEMA says we need to have a stock of food. But I don’t see too many people that are preparing spiritually. As I hear you guys talking, I think, from what it sounds like, spiritual preparedness may be the real key to survival because if you’ve got that then that allows you to look and think about things from a different paradigm, as we always say here on the show. Do you want to talk a little bit about spiritual preparedness, for not only here but as you see these places abroad, when you go to visit. Don’t you have to gird yourself up?

Dave: You absolutely do. One of the things that’s amazing is, through all of this, hearing and seeing firsthand when I was down there how strong the faith of the people who have so little is. Dicksent always tell me “worry less and pray more.” That’s what he tells his people. All around them – when we had center down in Port-au-Prince and there’s gunfire and there’s people who are literally being murdered and kidnapped in eyesight, right from the compound. He’s not worried. He knows that God has a plan for him and his folks. He’s going to spread the gospel until his last dying breath and same with his pastoral team and his teachers and his children. Their faith is incredible. Through all of this, they’ve been amazing. What I see is the faith of those who have the least is really the strongest. It’s absolutely amazing paradigm that up here in the United States when people have two or three cars and big screen TVs and they’re concerned that their iPod isn’t the most recent or they can’t do this on the internet or they can’t get on this … down there they don’t even know when their next meal is coming from. They don’t know if the bad guys will actually figure out a way to get over the compound wall this time. Or they don’t know if they go out and get provisions if this is the time they get ambushed. Rather than getting beaten up, they kill them. But they have a strong faith that God has a plan for them.

Jan: We see this in other countries as well, Dave.

Dave: It’s an amazing example of how they are really an example for myself and when I bring folks down there. All their comments are the same as unbelievable faith walk that they have.

Bill: Jan, you were saying you see this in other places as well.

Jan: Exactly. It’s the people who have the least, who have the strongest faith. They’ve learned to not worry about their next meal and where they live and the type of clothes they have, having a car – those things mean nothing to them. What means everything to them is their faith. We’ll see people who are literally starving. I’ll tell you, for instance, in India, we have three leper colonies in India that we sponsor. Those people – talk about having faith. These are people who have no fingers, lots of them have no toes. They may be missing a nostril or earlobes. The disease has eaten away at their bodies. They’re in pain constantly. They’re rejected by their family, rejected by society, living on next to nothing. They have nothing. Their flesh stinks. But yet their faith is strong as any faith you’ll find anywhere. They have that endurance. They’re not desperate people like we would assume they would be. It’s amazing.

Bill: It seems to me, guys, like it’s – perhaps, do you think America’s prosperity is our biggest problem, as we move into this … I think 2012, this is our New Year’s show – I think 2012 is a year – I’m not God, I don’t know the future – but it would seem to me that this is almost a pivotal year for the direction where our country can go.

Jan: I agree with you, absolutely.

Dave: I agree as well. I think sometimes our prosperity is a roadblock. I think people are naïve to believe that what they see happen as people can turn nasty quickly, you’re just deceiving yourself if you don’t think that can happen here. Not only can it happen here, it will likely happen here if things break down. I don’t give it more than a couple of weeks. Just think about what’d happen if the food supply is cut off just for a week. Most people don’t even have a week’s worth of provisions saved up, let alone enough to go months. Down in Haiti, now that we’re at a new location, we’re able to now start gardening and farming. We’re able to literally start a situation where we can live because there they have to live off the grid, it’s a matter of survival. They have to know how to sustain themselves as best they can, to the degree they can, because there isn’t a whole lot of society infrastructure supporting what they have.

Bill: Sure. I think it was Cotton Mather that said “your covenantal faith begets prosperity.” You work hard, just like the Bible promises, and you save and that creates prosperity. Then he said “then the daughter eats the mother.” in other words, you get to the place where the Bible promises and then it seems like we can’t pass through that faithful state when we’re prosperous. We always turn to the thing that it seems like got us there. It all becomes like a big Enron movie where we’re grabbing for more and more and more. We forget to see what’s the foundational principles that undergirded that very thing. I really think that’s the most dangerous thing about this next year, this 2012, as we face. But in Haiti and abroad, Jan, and India and Africa, it seems as you say like where are you going to go from where you’re at? If you’re already destitute, if you have leprosy, you’re clinging on to something. It seems to me like you can’t – you need something and so you grab onto anything because you don’t have that iPod, you don’t have that iPad, you don’t have that iPhone, whatever it is. Not that everything ‘I’ is bad … Jeremy’s laughing.

Jan: It makes you wonder though. [laughs]

Bill: It makes you wonder if we don’t depend on our technology, if we don’t depend on our money and realize that God can take you out, God can take the strongest military nation out. It’s not about all of your forces, it’s about the moral fiber and the faith that the people have. I think that’s the real danger. What are your needs as we move into 2012? As I said before, I’d like to match anything here that someone would send. What are the biggest needs? I think you guys should both – Jan, why don’t you go first and talk about your side. Then Dave can talk about what the needs are in Haiti.

Jan: For Heart of God International, our main focus is in Africa, basically in East Africa, and in India and in Haiti and then through the Soldiers Bible Ministry. Obviously finances – there’s always the need for any non-profit organization, especially now where times are tough and people don’t have it like they have had in the past to give. We have needs in each area of the ministry – some of them are significant needs and I’m rather unprepared right now to identify or to list them all out for you. We’ll gladly talk to anybody if they want to contact us and give them more specifics.

Bill: Jan, why don’t you give your number out again. We’ll give it out at the end, but what’s your number that they can contact you at?

Jan: They can contact me directly at the main office here at (419) 933-7000. Then I can put anybody in touch with the executive director for any one of the ministries and they can determine where they would like to sow some money or offer encouragement or even maybe volunteer. Our entire staff is all volunteer. Nobody in Heart of God International – none of the executive directors or anyone on our staff takes a salary. We’re all totally volunteer. That’s the way we can keep our costs way done. We do have a couple of contract people working on accounting and stuff but other than that, everything that’s done here is volunteer and we’re always looking for help. If anyone doesn’t isn’t able to write a check, we’re always looking for people who will offer their time and talent and resources to help us get the job done. That’s another opportunity for giving.

Bill: There’s a lot of work to do and people can get their hands dirty, as it were, just by starting out. You don’t need money, though there are our listeners who – before we talked about one of the listeners from Alabama, thank you very much for that gift – but there’s other listeners that can afford and maybe God’s given you something extra this year that you’ve got in the bank or you’ve done well. Please consider Heart of God. This is a real ministry. This isn’t layer upon layer upon layer of bureaucracy. As Jan was saying, there’s no payroll here. These are just people that are interested in helping others. That’s something that we all need to get better at as we move into harder times. We need to practice helping others in order to prepare for hard times. Dave, how about on your side? What’s your phone number there too?

Dave: My phone number is (585) 370-3700.

Bill: That’s primarily for the Haiti.

Dave: For Haiti. I can give you some specific needs that we have going for Haiti this year. We’re planting our first full-time American missionary down there. I’m going to bring him down myself and plant him towards the end of January of 2012. His main focus – he’ll be there for a five-month mission. One of our needs is for his support, which’ll be pretty meager – $800 a month for us to keep him down there. We need about $1,000 to get him down there, for travel costs – for airfare and travel. One of the interesting things we’re doing now is working on a model that makes our team down there much more self-sufficient. We don’t want a situation where, now that we have them stabilized, now that we have them in a safe and secure area, we’re working on programs to make them earn their own living. One simple way is there’s – a motorcycle’s an example. Our folks are on top of a mountain. For about $1,500, we can get a motorcycle and we can ferry people up and down the mountain. As people bring their goods to market, they literally hop on the motorcycle. You take them down to the bottom of the mountain and they’re selling their goods down in the area called Petionville. At the end of the day, you take those same people back up the mountains. They can make $100 a week so we can get them in a situation where they’re much more self-sufficient. Some of our ongoing costs are – unfortunately, we cut our budget significantly, so we’re able to barely feed – but we can feed our children on $2,500 a month. Right now we’re getting zero NGO support until that certificate happens. We’re getting down to a situation where things are getting a little bit – desperate. We’re getting down to the bare bones, where every month they’re saying there’s more going out than coming in. We have three people with glaucoma and their medical costs – the glaucoma medicine’s $300 a month. Our internet, which is vital, is $110. Our phones are $150. Any support we can get, we’d be very appreciative. I think this is the only organization, as you had mentioned – I’m a CPA so I’m all about internal controls. I’m also a colonel in the army, so I’m all about making sure things are running efficiently. I can vouch for the fact that when the dollars are sent, they’re spent in a way that people would be glad to see their money spent. It’s used for a specific purpose, the money’s spent for. It’s not sent to spend huge dollars on outrageous salaries. This money is actually being used to spread the gospel and get things done down in Haiti.

Bill: And when you go to the Heart of God Haiti site, which is, just seeing the pictures of the kids – if you can look at those pictures and not care about these people, you’ve got some issues. You should seek a counselor or something. Anyway, go to or and look at the kids and look at – these are real pictures with real people. As Dave is saying, there’s not a lot of overhead. We don’t get on the show a lot of times and call out for money. In this case, we are. We’re trying to say that this is a worthy organization and these folks are good stewards of your donation. If you’ve got anything left, as we close this year out, it’d be more than welcome for you to get a hold of Dave or Jan. Guys, do you want to say anything else as we close up here?

Dave: I’d like ask for people just to pray, if you can’t afford – I understand it’s tough out there and just know to pray and ask God to help our mission and help us spread the gospel down there. At the very least, send a prayer down there. On behalf of the people, I had talked with Pastor Dicksent, he asked me to thank you, Bill, and all of your listeners out there – how grateful, how unbelievably grateful he is for yourself, what you’ve done. Your organization has literally saved the lives of countless people and afforded us the opportunity to spread the gospel to thousands and thousands of people down there. Without your support and the listeners’ support, I don’t think we could have gotten as far. I personally thank you and all of our team members down in Haiti thank you. They’re so grateful for everything that you’ve given us the opportunity they have. We’re very grateful for that.

Bill: You’re certainly welcome. Jan, what do you have to say as we close up?

Jan: All I want to say is Solutions from Science and Off the Grid Radio have been tremendous partners. It’s an honor to know you guys and to work with you. I wish there was something we could do in return because we don’t find people like you very often. The way that we even connected was certainly a divine appointment. I’m forever grateful for you, for your heart toward God, for your heart toward ministry and the services that you offer people, because I believe it’s all rooted in the heart of God. I thank you, Bill, and I thank all the people of Solutions from Science, from the bottom of my heart.

Bill: Jan, thank you very much for saying those kind words. You’re already doing it – you say you wish there was something you could do – as we close out, I think it’s people like you that are actually doing it. We have a business here and the people that are buying the products from us – we’re grateful to them and we’re also grateful to Heart of God. Jan and Dave, happy New Year to you guys. Thanks, listeners, for a great 2011.

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