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Hidden Dangers of the Smart Grid with Devvy Kidd– Episode 079

There are over 8 million of them in California alone. There are over 4 million in Texas. Nationwide there are 22 million of these devices called “smart meters,” those surveillance monitors that the American people willingly or unwillingly let into their homes without realizing the full extent of what they are doing.

Smart meter technology, though touted as “cost-effective” and able to “maximize energy efficiency, leading many governments to mandate advanced metering” (, is about more than environmental concerns. It’s about control. And that’s the caveat those in government don’t want you to dwell upon.


Off The Grid Radio
Ep 079
Released: December 11, 2011

Bill: Greetings and welcome everybody. It’s Bill Heid, Off the Grid News Radio today. We’re talking to Devvy Kidd, our very special guest today. Devvy has got a very interesting background. We’re going to talk about the smart grid and smart meters today. First I want to tell you a little bit about Devvy’s background. She’s the founder and director of the Project on Winning Economic Reform. It’s an ongoing educational effort. She’s written a book, “Why a Bankrupt America,” that’s sold 1.6 million copies. She’s does WorldNetDaily which we advertise on – she’s a columnist there – and also NewsWithViews. Devvy, welcome to our show today.

Devvy: Thank you.

Bill: Can you tell us a little bit – let’s do a little bit of chronology. You’re kind of – and I say this affectionately to you, so don’t take this wrong – you’re kind of a troublemaker, aren’t you?

Devvy: Yes.

Bill: You’re a little bit of a troublemaker. If somebody gives you a hard time, you’re likely to push them back a little bit. A lot of the folks that listen to this are off-the-grid people, they’re interested in staying off the grid, or trying to get off the grid. I want you to take us back in time a little bit and chronicle this article that you had written about your fight with smart grid technology and the smart meter. Take us back a little bit today, and tell us how the whole thing got started and what you uncovered is really an amazing story. Take us back and tell us how the whole thing started.

Devvy: It goes back to April of this year. I had been reading a little bit about smart meters but we’re inundated – buried, flooded – every day with some new minefield from either the state or the federal government. It’s difficult to keep up with this, especially when you run into situations that involve highly technical or scientific fields when you don’t have any training for it. I had been reading things here and there but the smart meter was just off to the side, it didn’t really affect me because I had a meter reader come to my house every day. Then, on April 18th, I received this letter from Reliant Energy, which is one of the big – I think there’s three or four in the state of Texas – that there was a repeat problem with the meter reader having access to my property, which is true because I have dogs and I have big six-foot high wood fences and the gates are locked from the inside. I give a call to Reliant and they refer me to some company that I had seen their trucks around town called ONCOR who are what’s called the TDSP or a transmission and distribution service provider. They’re the ones that take care of all of the installation of equipment and checking equipment and reading the meters. I called the lady over there and she was real nice. I said “look, my husband is disabled. He doesn’t go anywhere very often. There’s somebody here all the time. I work at home. All they have to do is knock on the front door.” So I thought that was the end of it, until one day a young man at the door showed up and he had – by that time I was … then I started really looking into it because I thought “uh oh, there’s going to be a problem here.” Of course I was horrified by everything I was reading by people in the field – tops in the field – on electromagnetic transmission and this whole field that’s been around for almost four decades. One day a young man’s at the door and he has this thing in his arms. He says “I’m here to put the smart meter on your house.” I said “no, you’re not. I will not have one of those on my house.” He said “well, you have to.” I said “no, I don’t. Go back and tell whoever it is, I will not have one on my house. They’re dangerous.” Then I get on July 22nd a letter from ONCOR saying that they’re going to shut off my power if I don’t allow the meter to be installed. Of course the letter was full of very deceptive language about the EPA Act further requires states to consider – consider – the adoption of smart meters. I wonder if these people have ever looked in a dictionary for the definition of words like consider, mandatory, encourages. In any bent, ONCOR’s letter also cited a law that was signed by this governor we have, Rick Perry – snake in the grass – it’s HB2129.

Bill: But would they only cite, Devvy, part of the law just to try to make you think that they’re … and everyone needs to check the language that comes to them in these types of agreements because it’s a con, is it not.

Devvy: Yeah, it says right in the letter from ONCOR, “when the Texas legislature passed a law, HB2129, encouraging the development of new advanced meters” – encouraging. Nowhere does it … anyway, I go and get the original – I didn’t get just the original bill, because our legislature has online the history of the bill, the originals, any amendments – every step of the way you can see it. It didn’t change much. They changed a couple of sentences. But in that five-page bill, only one sentence – one single sentence on smart meters says that the legislature encourages the deployment of the advanced meters or the smart meters.

Bill: But are they using the word encouragement in like the mafia sense? If you had a business, a restaurant, and the mafia wanted you to pay and they just encouraged you to pay them – is that how they’re …

Devvy: That’s how it’s turned out to be because the lying and the strong-arming – they’ve arrested people out in the state of California for refusing.

Bill: For refusing to have a smart meter put on their …

Devvy: Yes. In Santa Cruz County, the residents lined up holding hands, PG&E showed up and the residents said “no, you’re not coming on our property.” The PG&E called the sheriff. The sheriff came out and arrested the residents and PG&E put the meters on.

Bill: Wouldn’t you think that you could at least say “I’m going to opt out of the power – I don’t want your power anymore?”

Devvy: Well, they have monopolies, is the problem. PG&E has the monopoly in California and here in Texas we have Reliant, there’s TXU … TXU and ONCOR, and like I said ONCOR is the contractor for Reliant Energy – they’re owned by Goldman Sachs. The Goldman Sachs.

Bill: OK. It starts to make sense a little bit.

Devvy: Because we’re talking about huge amounts of money. The federal government under the – stealing from us, of course – under one of their “acts” allotted $4.3 billion, which of course has to be borrowed from the central banks since the people’s purse is bankrupt – that would make it $8.6 trillion by the time that the interest is paid. The $4.3 trillion was thrown at the states to encourage – even the federal act itself encourages it. Last month, on November 3rd, the chairman of the Texas Public Utilities Commission testified in front of the US Congress. In six different places in her testimony she says that “we’ve encouraged our utility companies to deploy the meters.” Nowhere does she say that it’s mandatory because it’s not. But she’s the one we go in front of for my formal hearing. In any event, I fired – at that point I said “OK, fine …” I tried to see the local judge here who turned out to be a blithering idiot – “I don’t have any jurisdiction here,” Judge Barr – I don’t care if he’s listening to me or not. But of course he has jurisdiction because Reliant Energy and ONCOR are both companies that do business in this county. He’s the state judge for this area.

Bill: He’s not going to want to get messed up with all of that. He’s going to want to just …

Devvy: He doesn’t know anything about it.

Bill: He’s going to want to defer to …

Devvy: He says “go over to the district judge across the street.” So I go trekking across the street. The district judge, at that point – this is in late July – was in a jury trial for more than a week. He’s the only judge around. That’s one of the disadvantages of rural Texas, of course. At that point, I said “fine.” I called my friend who’s a constitutional attorney and retained him to represent us to get a hearing in front of the Texas PUC because people have become greatly alarmed with justification over how deadly these smart meters are, not to mention invasion of privacy. To me, these smart meters are little better than wiretapping what’s going on inside your house. We focused strictly on the health concerns. Tommy notified ONCOR and Reliant Energy – he reminded them of state law, that says …

Bill: Devvy, before you go on, I think that’s a great point for us – we’re going to take a little bit of a commercial break. Before you go on and tell us how that turned out – where you’re going down the line with this – let’s take a quick break and we’ll be right back.

[0:10:01 – 0:14:14 break]

Bill: And we are back. It’s Bill Heid today. I’m speaking with Devvy Kidd about the smart grid and smart meters. Devvy, you were telling us about your experience. Why don’t you pick up and let us have the full bore of what transpired.

Devvy: As I said, I retained an attorney and he notified ONCOR and Reliant Energy, which they already know, state law in Texas says that even if a consumer in a home or an apartment doesn’t pay their bill, if there’s a disabled person in that residence, they cannot by law turn off the power. My husband qualifies under that. We have a letter from his doctor. I’m not going to go into all of those health issues but … they backed off. But they decided to punish me – in August and September, instead of sending the meter reader back out, they simply estimated my usage at $400 a month.

Bill: Yeah, let me guess. They got it too low, right? They estimated low.

Devvy: [laughs] Right … it was rape in the true sense of the word. For whatever reason, they decided in October and last month, they sent out the meter reader. When he gets at the door I just unlock the gate and I escort him to the meter. It takes him 10 seconds to read it and he walks back out and I lock the gates. But not everybody has that luxury. Most people are working away from the home and they don’t know that they have any rights because these companies like ONCOR, these TDSPs – they’re flat-out lying to people. I had a gentleman call me Saturday morning – he’s over in Montgomery County, Texas – he was at work, his wife was in a panic – CenterPoint – they’re one of the worst liars and all this is going to come out in the hearings. They were at his house, his wife told them “no,” so she calls Glenn up and he goes home, but he called me and said “what am I going to do? They’re blanketing the neighborhood today installing these things.” I said “I’m going to email you the testimony of the chairman of the Texas PUC and I’m going to email you – I forget what the second document was that I emailed him – oh, the HR2129, because that’s what they continue to quote. I said “just be reasonable with them and then you have to make the decision whether or not to allow them to take it. But you don’t have to have the smart meter installed on your house.” He said “we have a generator.” He’s got six kids – I think he said six kids. The supervisor came to his house two hours later and he sat down and he talked to him and the installers and showed them the testimony … in the end they said “OK, this is what we’re going to do.” There’s a cold snap going through this area. Night before last, we had about five inches of snow in an area that doesn’t see snow in years. He was faced with having no heat in his house with all those children and his wife. They decided that they would not put it on his house and they would refer it up the line. He explained that there’s a group of us that are applying for a formal hearing in front of the Texas PUC. So he’s safe for now but the dragoons will be back.

Bill: They will be back, yes.

Devvy: Oh sure they will because there’s approximately 4 million of those deployed or installed in Texas right now. Almost 8 million in California. But this war’s going on all across the country while our legislators sit on their backsides doing nothing.

Bill: Let me stop you for a second. Don’t you think, if Goldman has their hands in this, it’s like the “Follow the Money” movie. You say a whole bunch of money went to the states and then the states distributed the money. I don’t know the way that this is working but I would surmise – then somehow the states work with these companies like ONCOR and give them money as part of the encouragement. It’s like Goldman probably cooked up the legislation to create the whole thing, or at least they maybe participated in it and ended up being the recipient of this. You should bring that up in the hearings – try to trace back, do one of those money flow things to see who got the money from where. But you can see where this is going. They’re trying to press our country for total country of the grid and your house. They want everybody to have these – not just people that have a barking dog or something – they want everyone to have one. Is that not correct?

Devvy: Yeah, they want everybody to have them for the simple reason that it all goes back to this thing called the smart grid. It takes, literally, a hundred hours of research to get everything to my attorney to cut down on billing hours because we live on a fixed income and this is killing us. The smart grid is a mesh of dirty energy blanketing this country. If you want to talk about big numbers, the smart grid is already being connected throughout the 48 states on the continental United States at a cost of over $1 trillion. The smart grid is no good without these stupid meters, because they’re not smart at all. They’re costing the taxpayer, the consumer, a lot of money for no return. Last year, the state of Hawaii said “we will not participate in the smart grid because it’s for a lot of money for nothing.” Maryland will not participate as well as New Jersey. Maryland denied the stimulus-funded smart meter request because it would saddle the rate payers with financial and technological risks. But New Jersey – I was trying to find it here – New Jersey’s own rate setter, the head honcho lady, testified in front of their big committees that these “smart meters” don’t save energy, they don’t have anything to do with saving energy because the only way to save energy is if the person is in the house and they’re standing around reading all these gizmo sensors on their freezer, their refrigerator, their coffeemaker, their microwave and going “oh, golly, my freezer’s using too much energy. I think I’ll lower it so all the food rots.” The whole concept is ridiculous.

Bill: It’s ridiculous at this level but, again, let me stop you and say – and I know you’ve got a response to this – let’s pull the camera back a little bit and see – it could work for them, for the globalists, if they decide to actually control your air conditioning, your heating and whatever. Don’t you think where the savings could come, in their minds – don’t get me wrong, I’m on your side on this – the savings could come is if they force you to behave like a good comrade, in a good communist nation, and they control your heat. It doesn’t matter to them that your husband might need a certain temperature in the house. It’s going to be regulated by an all powerful state. They’re going to tell you how warm it is and how much coffee you can make, how much computer time you can have and so forth. Do you see it in that sense at all?

Devvy: That’s exactly what the bottom line is. My second column, “‘Smart Meters’-the New Silent Killer,” I gave the link to the Spring 2011 industry magazine article called “Leadership in Manufacturing” and these people are actually proud of themselves. But there is a key sentence in the column that says – they’re talking about the smart meters and how much it’s going to be so wonderful in saving energy and it says – “the demand portion includes how to control energy inside the consumer space.”

Bill: OK! Gee, that’s what we want.

Devvy: Right then and there they tell you “the demand portion includes how to control energy inside the consumer space. Smart meters on buildings, smart thermostats and smart appliances, to name a few. How to control your energy use in your own home. In the initial stages of the smart grid development, they’re focusing on ‘changing the attitudes on the demand side. Conditioning by those who will control how much power is allowed in your home.’” That’s exactly what this is – smart meters are nothing but surveillance without a warrant.

Bill: And that’s what they want, and that’s where it’s all going. Tell us again where they can find that column? Then we’re going to go to a commercial break and we’ll be right back. How can people go verify this for themselves?

Devvy: On my website,, in the middle of the page is a bright orange-yellow box that says “Smart Meter Defense Fund” but if you click on that all three of my columns are there. They’re intense and they’re researched and they have everything to back them up in it.

Bill: Fabulous. We’ll link to that. Right now, let’s go to another commercial break as we get ready to come up on the other side we’ll talk more about the health side and the health dangers of smart meters.

[0:24:00 – 0:28:15 break]

Bill: Welcome back. It’s Bill Heid with Off the Grid Radio again. We are talking with Devvy Kidd about the smart grid, about smart meters. I wanted to ask Devvy a little bit about – you’ve done a mountain of research, as we mentioned before the break. You’ve got all of the research that you’ve done posted on your site. I would encourage our listeners to go there and check it out. Let’s talk about the health side. You’ve done a lot of research there too. To begin with, we’re saying it’s a dumb, bureaucratic mess, at this point. So smart meters aren’t so smart. Smart grid’s not so smart. But is the smart grid actually dangerous?

Devvy: Yes, because … wireless meters – like I said, the smart grid isn’t going to be any good without the wireless meters. The justification for the smart grid, at least for the lobbyists here in Texas on all this was that “oh, gosh, we had rolling brown outs here in Texas. This is going to help the utility companies …” No it’s not. It’s not going to help anything. Those wireless meters that are on every home and building, they emit these huge pulses of microwave radio frequency radiation every few seconds. They do it throughout the day, throughout the night, seven days a week. Even the World Health Organization recently classified this type of radiation that’s emitted from these smart meters as a Class 2B carcinogen on the par with lead. We know that these mesh networks, these signals, they bounce from house meter to house meter before reaching the final hub. We’re the lone holdout here. We’re the only one in this whole housing area that has no “smart meter.”

Bill: You’re even getting – if you would opt out, maybe you wouldn’t – but if you have one and say “I’m doing this,” you’re getting the carcinogenic effects from other people in your neighborhoods?

Devvy: Collective. Yeah, you take the house on the end – say there’s seven houses on the other side of the block – house #7, when these radiation transmissions are being collected to a site 200 miles away. House #7 readings go through house #6, through #5, through #4 and on down the line. The radiation buildup is huge. It’s way, way off the meter. But we know that people have extreme sensitivity to this type of – what they call EMF. Scientific evidence for biological impacts from microwave radiation – and they’ve known this for decades – impacts DNA, increases risks of cancers, tumors, cellular distress, decreased melatonin which gives people incredible insomnia, decreased sperm, cognitive difficulties, brain wave alteration, heart rhythm disturbances, et cetera. The list goes on and on. But the most common complaints to doctors and stuff are heart palpitations, dizziness, inability to fall asleep, memory problems, cognitive disturbances, flu symptoms. People’s health problems are worsening for those who get these meters on their house. In some cases it’s almost immediate. My groomer – I have two little West Highland Terriers that go to the groomer – I was talking to Tracy about it and her mother was sitting there and she goes “you know? I can’t understand it. I’m out of breath. I have dizziness, headaches … I remember they were at our house about a month ago.” I said “you need to document that and get it to me because we’re going to present all this stuff at my hearing in front of the Public Utilities Commission.” But the other danger that is known – the utility companies know this – #1, those radio frequency transmissions interfere with emergency broadcasts, like if somebody calls for an ambulance and they’re using something other than a telephone. It interferes with that. It absolutely causes malfunctioning of medical equipment, like people’s pacemakers, people who use wireless insulin pumps. The radio frequency spikes causes appliances, literally, to blow apart. This is an environmental and human disaster beyond proportions. Thankfully, people who are awake out there and concerned about these types of things have taken the time to fully research it and go after these utility companies. But because there’s such big money involved, it’s an uphill fight. There’s a hearing – new formal hearing was applied for out in California by Wilner & Associates. Let me go down to – it’s only a 19-page complaint. They filed it October 26, 2011 against Pacific Gas and Electric out there because they have the monopoly. They’re waiting for their hearing. My attorney – I have to go over to Shreveport on Monday for a meeting with him to finalize and get things together. We have three expert witnesses – one from England, one from California and one from Canada who are going to be allowed to testify by telephone as to the dangers of these wireless transmissions and what this whole thing involves – in front of our utility commission. It doesn’t do any good to file lawsuits, for those who are listening and might have the financial resources which we don’t – it costs tens of thousands of dollars to fight these things – but in all the states you have to go through the public utilities commission first because they are charged by your state legislature to handle the energy consumption, regulation, et cetera, within your state. There were two lawsuits filed here in Texas last year. One of them, I think the people should sue the lawyer for, for malpractice. There was, I think, 10 or 12 plaintiffs and the judge rightly dismissed the case because he said “you have to go through the PUC first.” The lawyer should have known that. The second one was a woman – I think her last name was Johnson – she did a really good job on her – she did it Pro Se – very few people have those kind of resources … 23 million unemployed. Anyway, she did a great job on her Pro Se filing on the privacy issues. Her complaint was very, very detailed. But again, the judge rightfully dismissed it and said “you have to go to the PUC first.” You have to go through all the bureaucratic red tape. Tommy’s filing for our hearing in a couple of weeks. Hopefully we’re going to go in January. We could have done this earlier, like this month, but the holidays are the worst time to have any kind of legal hearing. The hearing in front of the Texas PUC is not a trial, although there’s an administrative law judge there. Fortunately for us, we only have two commissioners here. I think out in California they have nine or 10. The fact that our own chairman – who’s going to be the chairman over my hearing and the other petitioners in my case who have come forth with a little money to help out – she’s going to have a hard time worming out of this one because she testified in front of Congress last month that it’s voluntary. One of the things that Wilner – David Wilner – brought out in their filing, because I’m looking at it right now, for the State of California is the fact that – I’m trying to remember the name of this company, I’ll get it up here in a second, I think it was on page 3 – the company that provides almost all of these “smart meters” in the United States it’s a company over in the Netherlands somewhere. He mentions in their filing for a hearing that this particular company, they found out, did not put together the meters properly, so that they’re not working properly. Here it is. The company’s called Landis+ – actually the plus sign which is kind of weird for a company name – but I believe they’re in the Netherlands. Landis+Gyr Electric Smart Meters show that some of them were not assembled properly and contained components that are subject to failure. As a result, some customers have a defective meter installed which is also a risk to them. There’s all kinds of things going on. But like I said, this is all about big money. That’s all it’s about.

Bill: I was thinking of the same thing when you said that. Do we know this company that makes the meters – do we know who owns that company?

Devvy: That company, amazingly, I just – right before I went to California a couple of weeks – they were just bought out by another company because this is huge business. That article I was talking about, the 2011 Industry Week Magazine, they’re so gleeful because all they see is dollar signs. They were talking about just the sensor industry – my freezer has a small little box on the front – that is called a sensor, just like the thermostat on your wall. It tells you all kinds of things which I ignore. I set the temperature, the freezer’s there to keep the stuff frozen. Period. I don’t go out there every hour and check. Just the sensor industry for these new smart meters, because eventually you’re going to have to replace your thermostats and this that and the other – all these sensors being put on microwaves, refrigerators, all this stuff – by 2014 will be a $84 billion a year industry. Just for the sensors to keep up with all of this new gadgetry on our appliances.

Bill: It’s an amazing thing. Devvy, we’ve got to take another quick break here. We’re going to go to a break and then we’re going to come back and talk a little bit about the privacy issues involved in this as well as what we can all do to stop this. We’ll be right back, right after this.

[0:38:29 – 0:42:40 break]

Bill: We are back again. It’s Bill Heid with Off the Grid Radio. I’ve got Devvy Kidd with me today. We’re talking about the grid – the smart grid, smart meters and all of that. Devvy, we were saying before we went to the break – I was thinking, it reminds me of the seatbelt laws a little bit. You remember, when they first started the seatbelt laws they said they wanted to encourage you to have a seatbelt. They weren’t going to make it illegal to drive without a seatbelt. Then they said, a little bit later, “we’re going to start to fine you.”Now it’s a revenue source for the state patrols in every state. Transform that, or take that and transplant that over into this – at the beginning it’s an encouragement and then it’s mandatory and then there’s the house police, the energy cops that use it if you’re not complying as a way to fine you, as a way to strip you of your energy rights or whatever it might be out into the future, I don’t know. But you see the metaphor that I’m getting at? They always do these things. They encourage you then they enforce and then they use it as a big stick to get more money from you out of.

Devvy: Yeah. Before we move onto the wiretapping aspect, in my first column on my fight against the smart meter, at the bottom, there’s I think 10 or 12 links to very important – these are the opinions of the findings of people who’ve been in this industry for a long time, but one of them in particular – and that’s what it says “legislative letter to members of the Michigan House of Representatives, Michigan Senate and Administrative Officers.” What it talks about is chronic diseases and the threat to the public health. They talk about cancer becomes the top killer in the US in 2005 and cancer and diabetes and chronic illness. One of our expert witnesses, a man named Samuel Milham – he’s a doctor with all kinds of credentials – I have his book in front of me. It’s not even 100 pages long. It’s called “Dirty Electricity.” His amazing discovery of all of this is very similar to one of our other expert witnesses in England, his name is Barry Trower??. Thirty years ago he worked on developing these electromagnetic frequency impulses and stuff for their military. These guys know all about this. In Dr. Milham’s book, he talks about the increases in leukemia and cancer, et cetera, which takes us to there’s a very famous study in a school in southern California where 18 teachers – they call them cancer clusters – 18 teachers developed 11 different kinds of cancer. The problem that is going on is that all these schools that are being built or revamped are just one big huge repository for these wifi or electromagnetic frequency pulsing of radiation. This study down there at the school – there’s no other conclusion that you can come to – is that these schools, literally, are ticking time bombs which one of the scientists in their papers in that first column I did called “Smart Meters: They’re Ticking Time Bombs for the Human Body.” There’s a huge case out in Portland, Oregon right now – I read all the filings and stuff – against the school district, by concerned parents, because the schools are being retrofitted with all of this wifi and they are frightened for their children developing cancer, leukemia and all kinds of health problems. This paper that was submitted to the Michigan House, Senate and their Administrative Officers is scary. That’s why I’m doing what I’m doing. My husband is a cancer survivor but he still has – he has advanced lung disease and a bad heart and everything.

Bill: But there’s no long-term studies, right? So you not only have situations for adults, but I’m wondering, what happens if the meter reader – they’re not going to know anything about any of this, they’re going to come and install it at your house. My guess, as luck would have it, if you have a playroom, they’ll figure out a way to install it right next to where your kids play so that the emissions are highest in that zone. There’s no studies about children growing with this stuff. They’re breaking new ground.

Devvy: The sad part is – and this paper that was submitted to the Michigan Legislature – they’re very right when they talk about in one area they did actually did a study in East Lansing that involved heart fibrillation, blood pressure, diabetes, non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma and exposed to all of this. You can only come to the conclusion that this dirty energy is having a horrible impact on human health. I tried to get him as a witness but because of the time zone differences, but this professor at the Hebrew University in Israel – he said, and I’ve talked to some of the other experts whose papers are linked in my column – all of this could have been avoided had the utility companies used fiber optics, because fiber optics have no known human ill effects or anything else. But fiber optics are very expensive so the utility companies and the buzzards behind them, like Goldman Sachs, they don’t care. They see this as a way to make big, huge money. The thieves in Congress can steal more of the fruits of our labor to fund our own deaths.

Bill: But even if they went to the fiber optics – let’s talk about the next issue – even if they go to fiber optics, there’s still a control issue, Devvy. They’re still trying to control your … let’s say they wiped all this out, that they learned that the studies – there’s probably no long-term study – the point I was making earlier to you, if they have some studies, they’re probably fairly short-term and the long-term studies will be worse than the short-term studies because it has time to accumulate and get worse. The longer term studies, if they ever do come out, my guess would be, worse than what any data that’s been reported thus far.

Devvy: Just like cell phones.

Bill: Just like cell phones.

Devvy: Just like cell phones – “oh, they’re safe.” Ten years later we have all these research studies come out and say “people that use them on the left side of their head for 10 years – they’ve got brain tumors.” Hmm. Gee whiz. They’re so safe. That’s why I don’t use them. I hate cell phones.

Bill: Yeah, keep them a distance from you, if you can, I think is the advice there. If you’re going to use one, use the speaker.

Devvy: Use the headset.

Bill: And the headset. Let’s talk a little bit as we close – we’ve got a few more minutes to talk about the privacy issues. I think this should scare the heck out of everybody too because you’re talking about people that – why would you need … this is like a wiretap in a way, isn’t it? Without a warrant.

Devvy: Yes, because the utility company – and it’s not just a utility company, this is wireless data, meaning the identity thieves out there – this has been a flourishing business in this country since the inept, incompetent cretins in Congress refused to stop the use of social security numbers for anything other than the Social Security Administration. You can drive a van down the street and if you have the right equipment you could pick up all the data that’s being squirted through those meters, through the air. You can pick it up. You can pick up the same thing – and there was an article and it’s linked in one of my three columns, I forget which one right off the top of my head – about new companies sprouting up selling your privacy because they’re able to pick up all of these transmissions. The State of Texas passed a law that says that the data collected by the utility companies is your business. Well that’s great – the only problem is it’s floating through the air. It could be grabbed by a third party, which this has been big growing business. Your privacy is now somebody else’s paycheck. They’re selling your privacy and your name and your address to all these companies throughout the world who want your money. But they can tell when you’re not home, which is great for thieves – if you’re gone three or four days and there’s no usage or increase, they can tell that. They can tell how long you’re using certain appliances …

Bill: When you go to work …

Devvy: It’s a total invasion of privacy.

Bill: When you go to work someone can tell you flipped the lights off and you take off and you go to work. That’s going to show up in this data and someone’s going to know and all they’ve got to do if they’re hip to all of how this works, they’ve got to drive a van around your community during the day – it’ll look like a utility van or something – collect the data and they’ll sell that data, but they might actually be clever thieves doing all this as well. Does anybody know about this?

Devvy: Yes, it’s been … there’s a lot of information on the internet, very specific information about how it’s being done.

Bill: I just don’t see Shepard Smith covering this story. Or Sean Hannity.

Devvy: I don’t see my state legislators getting off their butt and doing anything about it, to stop this. Instead, citizens like me – we have to scrape to get together legal funds to fight this. Where are the legislators? They’re so ignorant and stupid they don’t even understand that they’re being subject to all this radiation too.

Bill: Do you think they’re stupid or do you think they’ve been bought off?

Devvy: I think some of them are just stupid. They just don’t get it.

Bill: Well the one guy – one of our legislators – I can’t remember, I think it was a guy from Georgia – thought – was it on Guam, Jeremy? Do you remember that? He thought if you put all the military equipment in Guam on one end of the island that that part of the island would go under water? I can’t remember the guy’s name. But I think that’s what you’re dealing with when you say use the word stupid or ignorant, or whatever you want to say, that’s the kind of people that you’ve got governing our nation – not everyone’s like that. What I’m hearing from you is there’s a fair share of folks that just don’t get it.

Devvy: I have a brand new State Representative who’s very conservative, very good. He knows all about this. Our legislature is out of session until January of 2013. We’re like Montana and two other states – I forget the other two states – our legislatures only serve 120 days every other odd year. Our legislature was in session from January till the end of April. They had two emergency sessions and then they went out of session, so the capitol’s closed from last mid-May until January of 2013. They go back to their jobs. But he knows all about – there’s three legislators that I’ve talked to about this. They know all about this. Any time our legislature can call an emergency session and they do it all the time. Why they haven’t considered this an emergency when it affects public health on such a grand scale and forceful intimidation and lying is beyond me. But he ain’t going to get my vote next time.

Bill: That’s a good point, Devvy, as we close. We have to all say “who’s voting on this legislation?” We have to do some research. I want to say thanks for everything that you’ve done. I know it’s been a personal strain on you and your husband – who’s a war vet, by the way – what you guys have been through. Some people stand up and are troublemakers and you’re one of those rabble-rousers that people want to get behind and support. I’d suggest everybody to go to her site, check out her other writings. Devvy, we’d love to have you come back sometime after the board meeting. I’d love to get your take on what’s happened and how it all pans out.

Devvy: We’ll see what happens. I believe that we’re going to prevail because they don’t have a legal leg to stand on. We’ll see what happens.

Bill: Once again, thanks for being with us and thanks for everybody that’s listening for being with us today. We know that your time is very valuable and we also would like to thank you for all that you’ve done for us here at Off the Grid News. Thanks again and Happy Holidays.

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